[Oregon RS]

Holy crap ! They really did a number on that thing.
Did they charge you for the bonus 'adjustment' ?
Any update as to whether or not replacing the starter solved the problem ?

 

[DSUZU]

I can see how many teeth the starter has. How many teeth did the mechanics have? Dennis

 

[EricJette]

Question is, how many teeth does the flywheel have left? Lot of metal shavings on the business end of that starter.

 

[sirbryanclark]

Picked up a reman starter from O'Reilly's and popped it in the week before last. The guy at the counter said it looked like the unit had been on the shelf for at least ten years.

Freewheel teeth looked okay as far as I could see. Trooper starts right up. No more starter stuck on problem.

Idle is low after initial warm up cycle, but engine stays running. Took it for a spin around the block and the noise is still there. Next step checking/setting timing...

 

[EricJette]

Actually , I think the next step is to change your oil and check for metal shavings in the bottom of the drain pan. It's a pretty tell tale way to see if you've got a bearing gone bad.

 

[sirbryanclark]

Actually , I think the next step is to change your oil and check for metal shavings in the bottom of the drain pan. It's a pretty tell tale way to see if you've got a bearing gone bad.

Drained oil and there was absolutely no signs of metal shavings. I ran a magnet through the bottom of the drain pan a couple of times and didn't find anything.

 

[EricJette]

Good, you can rule out a rod knock then and your bottom end is not the problem.

 

[EricJette]

Since this noise happened suddenly, check that your alt and power steering pump mounting is good, and A/C pump as well if you have one, as well as the air pump.
Check exhaust pipe/header is secure. Another external thing that would make a knocking noise under acceleration is motor mounts or the tranny mount. Though the tranny mount knocking sound would be more under your floorboards.

If possible, make a cellphone video w/ good sound quality and upload it to u-tube then post a link to it here.

 

[sirbryanclark]

Okay finally tried to capture the noise on video now that I can reliably start, and sort of drive, the tuck again (I haven't been driving for fear of the problem causing more damage). I also took a video of the engine running in the driveway for good measure. The sound is not apparent in the driveway, but gets very loud under load (accelerating, going uphill).

Driving:

Driveway:

I removed the heat shield from the headers, checked headers and exhaust (seems secure). Checked PS pump and smog pump as well (both secure). I wonder, could it be the motor mounts? As of now thats the next thing I'll be looking into. Thanks everyone for your help thus far.

 

[paulevans76]

How much clearance do you have between the fan and shroud? If you have a bad mount (motor or trans) or a loose shroud, the fan may just be rubbing it. Check the blades for scratches. If you have a pry bar, you can probably check your motor/trans mounts.

 

[EricJette]

This sounds like you have a blown head gasket , possibly a rod knock....Loss of power, loss of compression is obviously too severe for proper acceleration, I thought you meant it was simply lower than the other 3&4 by a few psi ....If you need someone to build you a new motor, send me a PM , I know just the guy.

 

[sirbryanclark]

This sounds like you have a blown head gasket , possibly a rod knock....Loss of power, loss of compression is obviously too severe for proper acceleration, I thought you meant it was simply lower than the other 3&4 by a few psi ....If you need someone to build you a new motor, send me a PM , I know just the guy.

- I need to do a compression test on it. I don't trust the one the shop did on it.
- It doesn't actually feel like there is a loss of power, but again I'm reluctant to push it or drive it with the noise. The driving video is shot going up a pretty steep hill.
- Wouldn't I see smoke from tail pipe or oil in the radiator if head gasket was blown?

 

[EricJette]

What were yo doing! ? Working the gas pedal like a dog on a bone that the RPMS were sounding like it was running on 3 cylinders....LOL!! Or was it losing traction and causing the variable engine rpms?

Sounded like dried $hit in a sardine can...O'Reilly's should be able to rent a compression tester to you. Pull all the plugs, disconnect the coil wire from the distributor, and make sure your battery has a good charge to turn over @ 300 rpm , Fit the tester in each cylinder in turn , recording the readings after a good 15 seconds cranking on each. A new motor will read 170 psi across the board +/- 2 psi between cylinders. Rebuild @ or below 120 psi on any cylinder. There should be no more than 7 psi difference between cylinders ( indicating valve adjust needed) over this indicates valve burning , and rebuilding required. generally head gaskets will be shouting at you in numbers so low in cylinders affected that there will be no debate. Let me know what readings you get.

My guess is you blew the head gasket out exactly between #1 & #2 or #2 & #3 cylinders where there is no oil gally or coolant passage. It is the thinnest space between the two combustion chambers/cylinders , as little as about 3/16" wide. So you have compression leaking into each cylinder on their respective firing, no white smoke from steam, no water in oil or oil in water...just a transfer of hot gasses between cylinders causing loss of compression.

My friend John who is an expert at these things also thinks you may have a rod knock, but considering you were going up a steep hill with less than ideal compression and 2 cylinders barely functioning , it might knock a bit for lack of torque.

Was not knocking when you revved the engine while parked.

Here's the thing, you gotta be the judge , given how many miles on the motor whether it should also get new timing belt , tensioner, front/ rear crank seals ....beyond a top end kit ....is it simply just time for a full rebuild ?

If it's over 170k ....I'd say so.

 

[paulevans76]

Listening to the video again, it sounds rough, but could be pinging/knocking, so I'd look into potential timing-related issues. Hard starting is another sign. Check if the diz is loose or timing belt tensioner, etc.

Hard to screw up a compression test though, in regards to the comment about the shop's numbers. Just make sure when you do it that the engine is warm. The comp test will tell you if you've got one of the bigger problems.

 

[kg4miq]

Watching the video, this sounds like a dead cylinder. You've diagnosed it near cylinder #2. Has the intake manifold been disassembled recently? I ask because I've had an engine with a 12mm nut dropped into it that sounded similar to this. The piston was hitting the nut on each rotation of the engine, and was causing severe piston slap. Has anything been dropped into one of the cylinders?

This could also be caused by a dead spark plug. Verify all four spark plugs are gapped correctly and working properly. Swap the plugs to different cylinders and see if the problem moves.

I would also add: you may need to redo your valve adjustment. It sounds almost as if there is a bit too much clearance on at least one of the rocker arms, as it's making too much noise at idle while parked. Set TDC for #4 piston (distributor rotor button aligned with the clamp-down nut for the timing adjustment) and adjust #4 intake and exhaust, #3 intake, and #2 exhaust, then rotate the crankshaft 180 degrees and adjust #1 intake and exhaust, #2 intake, and #3 exhaust.

Once the valve adjustment is done, if you haven't already, pull the spark plugs, prop the throttle body open wide, and check compression on all four cylinders. Eric gave good advice on the numbers for each cylinder, above.

Your engine is running too rough at 2k RPM for all four cylinders to be firing correctly. I would also advise making certain you have good spark plugs and wires, as this could exacerbate a loose/knocking rod or piston slap.

If 201k miles is original to this engine, and it hasn't been rebuilt yet, you might consider it. The first ten seconds of the driving video reveals a lot about what is going on. Sounds a lot like piston slap, but a compression test will help diagnose. Post numbers for each cylinder when you get them.

HTH,
/tim

 

[sirbryanclark]

Sorry for the long over due update. Summer has a way of flying right past...

I ran a compression test and found:
Cylinder 1: 30psi,
Cylinder 2: 30psi,
Cylinder 3: 105psi,
Cylinder 4: 115psi
and no significant increase with wet test.

I feel like the signs are pointing toward that the head gasket has blown between cylinders 1 & 2 and is the source of the sound, loss of power and poor idle. The head and gasket were replaced around 165k (at a local shop in Hansville, WA according to the previous owner). So failing after 25k would probably be do to a faulty gasket job, in my opinion. I keep thinking I'll have time to do the head gasket, but its already fall and I really need my driveway spot for my other vehicle that needs some (less involved) work before winter. Long story short I either need to get rid of the trooper or pay a shop to do the head gasket...

Anyone want to buy a Trooper? or anyone know the most affordable place to have my head gasket replaced in Seattle?