'99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

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'99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:21 pm

Found a 2000 Trooper LS.... minus the powertrain. Front diff was intact and cargo area was loaded with parts.
Two days later, discovered a 1999 Rodeo 3.2L engine, 4L30-E transmission, TC, and front diff.
trooper 12-03-20 (3).jpg

trooper 12-03-20 (2).jpg

trooper 12-03-20 (1).jpg

trooper 12-03-20 (4).jpg
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:54 pm

The engine was on a pallet in a barn and had been sitting there a while. I was told it was from a salvage yard and had intended to be installed in a Jeep ?? Unfortunately, the owner died and project ended. So, my assumption is that the engine is functional; why would someone buy an engine for a project if it wasn't. (?) I did some basic inspection, smell this, turn that, but it's a barn.

So, haggled price, forked over cash, and got it home.

Now on a stand, I sprayed lubricating oil in each cylinder and did a hand crank compression check.
As I understand it, this is really only to see if a major overhaul is necessary (i.e., piston with a hole, etc.).
trooper 12-03-20 (5).jpg


With RH bank being 1,3,5 and LH bank being 2,4,6 (starting at fan) (in PSI):
1 - 55
2 - 62
3 - 65
4 - 50
5 - 70
6 - 60

These don't seem too bad to me. The average is 60 and I've read +/- 10% is good. The 50 is low and the 70 is high. ??
Anybody think these numbers warrant further tear down?
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:27 pm

You need to spin the engine with the starter, typical PSI is about 175, you would rebuild the engine at 150
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:05 pm

Thanks Buster28.
I was thinking that the trans needed to be connected in order to mount the starter. That would be a challenge outside of vehicle.
I'm curious if an adapter could be fabricated to mount the starter, mimic a portion of the bell housing.
It would definitely be ideal to test with starter while on engine stand.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:38 pm

While I figure out how to spin with starter, I'll share this:
Yesterday I checked the top end.
I did not see any damage to the camshaft lobes.
IMG_8942.JPG
IMG_8944.JPG

IMG_8951.JPG
IMG_8953.JPG


All lobes had a mirror finish. No scoring or scratches were observed.
No burnt oil or debris. It was generally very clean. Inside of both covers was also generally clean.
The spark plug tube seals were brittle so I'll replace those while here.
Speaking of, anybody know of a good way to clean out a spark plug tube?
Some have a considerable amount of debris, anti-seize, etc., in the bottom.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:42 pm

campbell8300 wrote:Thanks Buster28.
I was thinking that the trans needed to be connected in order to mount the starter. That would be a challenge outside of vehicle.
I'm curious if an adapter could be fabricated to mount the starter, mimic a portion of the bell housing.
It would definitely be ideal to test with starter while on engine stand.

Not sure what you have in mine.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:42 pm

Thanks Buster28. Good call.
I found where it mounts.
3.2L starter location.jpg


That brings me to divulge a mishap.
The Trooper had a starter, just no engine.
As we were towing the Trooper home, hit a dip, starter goes bouncing out from wherever it was stowed.
It was only a hundred yards or so, but...
starter mishap.jpg

starter in ER.jpg
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:55 am

The 98-02 Trooper 3.5L engine block is the same block used for the 98-04 Rodeo 3.2L, both engines have the same bore, the difference is the crank and the piston compression height. The heads and connecting rods used in the 3.5L are also used in the 3.2L. Essentially, a Trooper 3.5L is a stroked Rodeo 3.2L.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:09 pm

Disassembled starter and repaired braided wire connection.
Mounted starter, put lightweight machine oil in each cylinder.
Starter worked fine but when it would engage the flywheel, it was loud.
Motor wasn't loud, it was the tooth engagement. I'm wondering if the starter pinion isn't extending too far out.

So, the results were (psi):
1 = 170
2 = 185
3 = 148 *
4 = 141 *
5 = 165
6 = 178
* I cranked for 3-4 s, then pause for a few, crank again, pause, crank again.
The other 4 cylinders came up to pressure quickly and mostly on one 3-4 s crank.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:29 am

Upon further review....from the booth
I looked at my workshop manual (thanks to my friends in Lithuania)
I believe that the starter pinion may be jumping out too far. That's just a guess from what it sounds like.
I'll be checking it according to the manual.
pinion jump out.jpg

I'm not quite sure about those dims. .002" - .060". I was expecting a dim from the face of the starter.

As for the compression test, I knew before hand that the limit (according to the manual) was 145 psi.
Below that, overhaul. So, I was kind of deflated yesterday when I saw the readings on CYL 3 and 4 (141 and 148 psi).
The other four cylinders came up to pressure quick, but these I had to repeatedly crank and pause.
So, I suspect something is awry with these (rings or valves).
This morning I re-read the manual and saw this:
compression test.jpg

First, the engine isn't at op temp but there is some light machine oil in the cylinders. I'm just not sure how much influence the temperature has.
Second, I forgot to open the throttle valve for the test. I'm thinking I need to re-run the test.

A friend suggested that I check for a stuck valve. Not exactly sure how I would do that.
But that'll be after I pull the starter and check the dim.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:21 am

campbell8300 wrote:A friend suggested that I check for a stuck valve. Not exactly sure how I would do that.

Do a leak down test by injecting air into the cylinder placed at TDC via the spark plug hole and listen for air coming out of either the intake or the crankcase (or both).
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:51 pm

Copy that.
I went ahead and pulled the lower oil pan to check the bottom end.
No issues observed. No metal or debris.
I did find something curious in the oil pan.
drain plug secondary hole inside.jpg


drain plug secondary hole outside.jpg


I wasn't aware another hole was necessary. If filler cap is off, it should breathe ok during drain. Not sure.
In the upper view, above the drain port, PO appears to have welded a boss for an oil temp sensor.
Below the drain port I set a neodymium magnet. From looks of it, I need to clean it.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:49 am

Without the hole the oil level could never be lower than the top of the threaded piece when the pan is drained. The hole allows the residual oil to drain out.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:39 pm

I ran through the starter again. Once the pinion jumps out, it's out. There was no slop. So, I buttoned it back up and called it good.

I re-ran the compression check on #3 and #4 cylinders with the throttle open.
This time, #3 cylinder showed 160 psi.
However, #4 still could only reach 140 psi.

As suggested, run an air leak test.
I had to make a tool for this. I thought I was going to be real slick and use a 14mm fine thread bolt for this.
Then center drill it, remove the head, and turn down the shank to receive the air hose.
air connection fail.jpg

Not! Apparently fine thread for a bolt is a 14mm x 1.5 pitch and spark plug thread is 14mm x 1.25 pitch. Doh.
Dropped to plan B and made this one (below). While the interface between the non-foul adapter and the pipe thread was like fingernails down a chalkboard, with adequate thread tape, it worked good and more than sufficient for this application.
air leak test tool.jpg

I pulled valve cover and made sure #4 was in compression stroke at TDC.
Connected 20 psi shop air. Survey says...
Exhaust valve. Hissing was present at exhaust outlet.
No discernable sounds in intake. Or anywhere else that I could tell.
cylinder #4 leak test.jpg

Since it appears to be a valve (rather than rings, piston, or cylinder), and only a mild leak, I'm probably going to roll the dice here and proceed with install.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:33 pm

Onward and upward.
Oil pan and new filter installed.
The camshaft plug seals were leaking. All 8. Or, perhaps it was weep. So I'm replacing those next.
camshaft plug seal 1.jpg

With the oil drain back hole right there, it kind of makes sense why an old seal would leak.
Ok, so that brings me to my question for the Planet.
camshaft plug seal bore.jpg

The seal bore has a very small groove.
The new seals seem to want to push in quite easily, slight resistance.
Question: Are these seals installed with any sealant?

I've read through the camshaft removal section of the shop manual but didn't find any mention.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:16 am

Less talk, more action.
Installed 8 camshaft plug seals, dry.
Replaced timing belt, tensioner, and 2 idlers; also water pump.
Replaced valve cover gaskets and 6 spark plug tube seals.
camshaft plug seal complete.jpg

timing belt.jpg
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:21 am

I don't have an engine test stand. But I'd sure like to try to start it out of the vehicle.
Fuel supply would be an issue since the HP fuel pump is in the tank.
I could mount the radiator off the engine stand.
And mount support legs off the engine mounts.
But there are all those electrical connections....
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:39 am

Did you reinstall the timing belt using this procedure?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4st6CqDGmoc
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:11 pm

Yes I did, and thanks.
That link was actually to Part 3 when the engine is out of time.
I watched and followed Part 2 timing belt replacement.
Perhaps I'm a nerd, but that video was really informative.
I'll see how well I did soon enough...
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:29 pm

black green blue 0.jpg

Kind of like the tin man.
Just needs a heart.
.
In preparation for install, I'm looking at the engine harness connections.
.
black green blue 1.jpg

The engine bay appears to have 3 locations for a black/blue/green harness connection.
Two on the drivers fender and one on the passenger side.
black green blue 3.jpg

The engine has only one. ?
Then there are these other terminals grouped with the battery wire.
.
black green blue 2.jpg

And on the pallet from the salvage yard was this other harness, also with a black/blue/green connection.
.
I can see that perhaps some of terminals tie into the transmission.
But, I think I'm missing something.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:09 am

The engine, transmission and PCM wiring harnesses in the 2000 Trooper body are not in any way compatible with your 1999 Rodeo 3.2L engine and 4L30 transmission. You will need to rewire everything and replace a lot of connectors. You also need a 1999 PCM and place to mount it, in a 1999 Trooper/Rodeo the PCM was mounted under the dash above the center console. The PCM in 2000 Trooper is on the LH inner fender.

The 2000 Trooper PCM has two 80 Pin connectors, the 1999 Rodeo/Trooper PCM has three 32 pin connectors. The 2000 4L30e transmission has a 4 pin overdrive section connector and a 7 pin main case connector. The 1999 Rodeo/Trooper 4L30e has a 5 pin overdrive section connector and a 4 pin main case connector.

The bottom line is the 2000 Trooper PCM cannot control the 1999 Rodeo engine and 4L30e transmission so you will need install a 1999 Rodeo/Trooper PCM and rewire everything to produce a driveable vehicle.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:29 pm

So I got to know ol' Larry at the salvage yard.
And they've got a 99 Trooper with wiring harness intact.
99 trooper.jpg

I'll be pulling it myself.
Up to now, I'm thinking I have to remove the dash.
Which looks like a big job.

Of course, there was another vehicle, a 96 Trooper.
Someone had already dispatched the dash and the harness was out and exposed.
96 trooper.jpg

Any insight if the 96 harness would work on a 99 ?
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby Buster28 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 am

The 96/97 Trooper uses a different PCM and engine so it is unlikely you can use the wiring harness.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:58 pm

Update:
project cost 01-13-21.jpg

Going back to salvage yard to retrieve engine compartment wiring harness next.
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Re: '99 Engine / Transmission / TC install into '00 Trooper

Postby campbell8300 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:46 pm

Screenshot 2021-01-21 112236.jpg

Back at the salvage yard... on the '99 Trooper.
I was thinking that I needed all the engine compartment wiring harnesses for making the jump from '00 to '99 powertrain.
So, I pulled everything.

I did compare them once back at home.
passenger side harness (w/fuse and relay box) = appear to be really similar, if not the same
driver side harness = obviously different w/PCM connection but lots of similarities in engine bay

I hate to say it but I'm debating pulling the harness out of my '00. Rather, take apart the '99 harness and just install what's necessary. ??
Eh. It's temping but it would likely be sketchy.
R&R the harness is likely the safest bet.
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