86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

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86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby robertlhawley » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:49 pm

Hi All--
Long time lurker, first time poster. I've got a '86 TD Trooper (C223T engine) with about 175k miles. Noise started on the freeway at high speed and caused rough running as well (almost won't idle at all). Compression is on the low end but even across cylinders. I've never heard an engine with a confirmed rod knock, but that's what I'm starting to think it is. But short of pulling the head or the oil pan I'm not sure how to diagnose further.

Here are a couple of 17-second videos that feature the sound I'm hearing- hard to place it (everything's pretty loud) but I _think_ this sound is coming from the bottom end.

First video- higher idle speed more impressive knocking, but only from above
Rod knock video 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_7XlPpmruk
Second video- lower speed, also listening from below
Rod knock video 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0a1TthLUPA

Anyone with trained ears want to identify? I don't want to get into pulling the head or oil pan if I don't have to.

Thanks!
Cheers,
Bob
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby Ed Mc. » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:23 pm

OMG don't run it anymore until you figure out what it is. Sure sounds like a rod knock to me!
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby robertlhawley » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:36 am

Thanks Ed! Much appreciated. Is there any way of further diagnosing rod knock without pulling the head or oil pan? YouTube is full of videos putting a straw through the spark plug hole of a gasoline engine to see the piston rise and fall but I don’t think there’s any way into the cylinder for that kind of test in this engine. The injectors look like they’re in the right place but I think this engine has a pre-combustion chamber so no luck there either.

Any other ideas for diagnosing? If it is a rod I don’t think I have the fortitude (either time or money) to rebuild so I’d probably sell or part it out.

Thanks again!
Cheers,
Bob
Last edited by robertlhawley on Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby DSUZU » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:45 am

Drain some or all the oil and see if there are LOTS of metal flakes in it. Dennis
1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N air filter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar. Engine is bored .020 oversize and upgraded to 1994 pistons, head and EFI system.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years. 1994 Amigo devoured to provide head and EFI system.
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby JoeIsuzu » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:22 am

robertlhawley wrote:If it is a rod I don’t think I have the fortitude (either time or money) to rebuild so I’d probably sell or part it out.
Bob,

I hope it's not that, but if it is--
I would not spend the time or money to have it rebuilt either. IMO, it's too much vehicle for the C223-T, at least in US on-road driving conditions. If I had this Trooper, I'd probably look for a larger diesel (4JB1-T or 4JG2-T), but those engines (at least the low-mile ones from Japan) have pretty much disappeared from the US market.

Whatever you do, don't send it to the scrappers. The engine, even in its current condition, is much more valuable as parts. There are several components that can be sold for pretty fair $$$. If you want, I can list the most searched-for items (based on what I've seen at isuzupup.com and here).

Jack
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby robertlhawley » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:01 pm

Jack- that would be great! I'd taken a few looks at the various threads on people rebuilding and also replacing these engines, and yes- it does seem that the replacements are getting harder to find!

Add to that the fact that this rig has seen 10 New Hampshire winters and is beginning to show it, and the return on investment does not seem to be there. The rust isn't so bad that one couldn't recover it, if someone would be driving it in another part of the country... but for where I live I'd guess it's got max 10 years left.

I'd love to see a list of the parts you think are most valuable- the last thing I want to do is take something as rare as this and just junk it! I'll probably try to sell it all together if possible but parting it out wouldn't be that bad a hobby for a while...

Thanks again!

Cheers,
Bob
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby robertlhawley » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:03 pm

DSUZU wrote:Drain some or all the oil and see if there are LOTS of metal flakes in it. Dennis


Thanks Dennis! I'll plan to do this before I do much else. About to leave town for a couple of weeks so it may be some time...

:)

Cheers,
Bob
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:27 am

JoeIsuzu wrote:If you want, I can list the most searched-for items (based on what I've seen at isuzupup.com and here).
robertlhawley wrote:Jack- that would be great! I'd taken a few looks at the various threads on people rebuilding and also replacing these engines, and yes- it does seem that the replacements are getting harder to find!
...
I'd love to see a list of the parts you think are most valuable- the last thing I want to do is take something as rare as this and just junk it! I'll probably try to sell it all together if possible but parting it out wouldn't be that bad a hobby for a while...

Bob,

Not in any particular order, but the most commonly-searched-for parts, based on my unscientific observations:
  • Turbocharger system (probably best sold as a complete kit -- including both manifolds AND the injection pump. Some buyers might pay extra for the valve cover to be included)
  • Rocker arm assembly
  • Pushrods - some buyers need a couple, others may want all 8
  • 4wd oil pan -- I've seen these go for $100-ish to $400. The oil pump and pickup may have value, but I think Jerry may still be able to get factory replacements.
  • A/C components - the compressor bracket is unique to the C223
  • Thermostat housing
  • Fuel injectors - typical selling price is around $75 for the set.
  • Power steering components
  • Alternator - with vacuum pump, unique to the C223.
  • Transmission - The diesel version of the 4wd MSG-5 was only offered in 1986-1987. There are occasionally 1981-1985 P'up owners who want to upgrade from the MSG-4 (4-speed) 4wd. These aren't easily shipped, but I've shipped a few transmissions.
  • Driveshaft slip yoke - The piece that slides into the tailshaft housing of the transmission. This is no longer available new, and it is a "must-have" for P'up owners who want to upgrade transmissions (the 1981-1985 transmissions are failure-prone). I've sold several of these, typically around $75 plus shipping.
  • Heater core - It may be getting too old, but if it doesn't leak, it may be worth selling.
  • Windshield washer reservoir and pump - if it works and doesn't leak
  • Glow system - wiring harness, QOS controller, relays, dropping resistor, and sensing resistor. I would not buy or sell used glow plugs, it's not worth the trouble.
  • Door locks, glovebox lock, ignition cylinder and matching key(s)
  • Window cranks - I've broken more than one, and these fit P'ups as well as Troopers
  • Tail lights - These fit P'ups as well as Troopers
That's all I can think of for now. Others may weigh in here with valuable suggestions.

Jack
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby robertlhawley » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:43 am

JoeIsuzu wrote:Not in any particular order, but the most commonly-searched-for parts, based on my unscientific observations:
Jack

Thanks Jack! This is really helpful. I'm still hopeful that it won't come to that as I hate to send anything to the junkyard, but we'll see!

Cheers,
Bob
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Re: 86 TD Trooper- is this a rod knock? (Video links)

Postby robertlhawley » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:30 pm

Just back in town and drained the oil through an old sock as a filter, and as expected; metal flakes.

I'm now treating this engine as terminal; it will still run (though I haven't run it since the videos I made and won't run it again) but knocks and I now see it as pretty certain that it's a bad rod bearing.

Rebuild is too much for me to do on this truck at my current life stage; I'll be either selling it whole or parting it out; I'll post separately about it hopefully soon but if anyone is interested (especially in the Northeast), feel free to PM me to discuss.

Thanks for all the help with this!
Cheers,
Bob
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