1st Gen Trooper v3.0, LX9 swap

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Postby geoffinbc » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:18 am

Whats wrong with the stock intake? Are you not going to rotate it 180*
1990 Trooper, 3.2L (3.1L .040 over) Pushrod V6, 5 speed manual. 33X10.50X15 BFG M/T KM2's. 3" OME Lift. Cowl Induction Intake. ARB Lockers front and rear. HD Tierods.
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Postby Red0ktober » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:55 am

Points the throttle right into the radiator, same problem I had with the 3.4L SFI intake. I'm running a 15" fan now (not the dual 10") so I don't have the clearance. Also would interfere with my accessories. I'm planning on using the 2.8 brackets, and I'd like to get my air conditioning reinstalled which will further clutter the front end.

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Last edited by Red0ktober on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby geoffinbc » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:35 am

Hmmm. Weld inlet to the side then?
1990 Trooper, 3.2L (3.1L .040 over) Pushrod V6, 5 speed manual. 33X10.50X15 BFG M/T KM2's. 3" OME Lift. Cowl Induction Intake. ARB Lockers front and rear. HD Tierods.
Off the road for an overhaul right now.

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Postby Red0ktober » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:38 am

betterthanyou wrote:Hmmm. Weld inlet to the side then?


Exactly. I was thinking I'd take the inlet from a 3400 manifold, that way I wouldn't need the TB or EGR adapter. The 2.6 and SOHC 3.2 have a side intake. I might even be able to use a 3.2L airbox.
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby Red0ktober » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:23 pm

The TB opening is bigger on the 3500, and on the reasoning that bigger is better, I should probably use it. Also, the 3400 uses the same type of EGR, so I'll need an adapter for that anyway.

I pulled the UIM off and I'll start sawing off the inlet when I get the right cutter.

At the moment, I need to concentrate on tidying up my garage so I can fit my car and the couple engines in there. I don't like my doors freezing shut!
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
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1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby turboxr » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:47 pm

Much easier solution would be to run a dual electric fan from a Taurus or the like, and run a 90 degree coupler from the TB to the ducting for the airbox.
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Postby geoffinbc » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:27 pm

Cant. Its the neck of the intake that is the problem. It wont even work with the acc drive.
1990 Trooper, 3.2L (3.1L .040 over) Pushrod V6, 5 speed manual. 33X10.50X15 BFG M/T KM2's. 3" OME Lift. Cowl Induction Intake. ARB Lockers front and rear. HD Tierods.
Off the road for an overhaul right now.

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Postby Red0ktober » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:59 pm

I did that when I ran the 3.4L SFI, I used a dual 10" flex-a-lite fan mounted low on the radiator so I had clearance for the 90º elbow. But you fix one problem and make another.

Betterthanyou is right, you can't clear the 2.8L accessories. Interferes with the A/C bracket if you have it, or the serpentine belt. I used the 3.4L brackets with an A/C delete pulley. However, that the alternator then interferes with the battery and tray. So I relocated the battery to the rear and cut away enough of the tray to clear. It was messy, but it worked.

I think the best solution it to modify the intake to feed from the side.

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Postby turboxr » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:38 am

Ahhh, I see. Too bad. The fab will be fun though!
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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:09 am

I promise I might clean the engine bay next time I have the engine out. :P
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Postby geoffinbc » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:11 am

What about a 4.3L TB on top with the factory elbow? Hows your hood clearance? I don't mean a TBI setup I mean the 96+ trucks.
1990 Trooper, 3.2L (3.1L .040 over) Pushrod V6, 5 speed manual. 33X10.50X15 BFG M/T KM2's. 3" OME Lift. Cowl Induction Intake. ARB Lockers front and rear. HD Tierods.
Off the road for an overhaul right now.

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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:44 am

I thought about that, I think I'd really be pushing it for hood clearance. I'll have to break out the measuring tape tomorrow.

Have you ever examined a 3500 UIM? I'm blown away by how they cast these complex parts. There is a "tube" that extends from the TB neck halfway into the UIM cavity. I just assumed it was hollow...

Trying to figure a way to relocate the TB neck without completely ruining the design GM worked so hard on!
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:53 am

This is what I mean to imitate:
Image

This shows where the internal tube cast into the lower section ends:
Image
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby geoffinbc » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:52 am

Hmm. Have you looked at the 3100 or 3400 intakes. Might be able to make something different work.

Or what if you cut off the tube square right near the edge of the manifold and then found an aluminum elbow that was the same diameter and thickness and welded that on then the weld back on the stock inlet tube?
1990 Trooper, 3.2L (3.1L .040 over) Pushrod V6, 5 speed manual. 33X10.50X15 BFG M/T KM2's. 3" OME Lift. Cowl Induction Intake. ARB Lockers front and rear. HD Tierods.
Off the road for an overhaul right now.

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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:00 am

The 3.4L SFI intake rises about 8" above the block, the 3500 about 9", and my hack TBI air cleaner sits at 12" (I have a TBI spacer). With the TBI spacer, I could not clear the unmodified air cleaner housing with the lid flipped. With the slope of the hood, might be safe with 11" at the front and 13" at the rear.

If I put a throttle body on the top, I would have 3-4" inches to work with. The TB alone is 2" tall. So long as the elbow off that is 2" or under it might work. Also figuring the base plate for the TB doesn't rise much off the manifold.

Or, one could recess the base plate slightly into the UIM to give a bit more clearance at the top (assuming the internal tube from the existing inlet is removed). Or cut away the top of the UIM and fabricate something entirely different to weld on.

Other considerations:

With the UIM and LIM turned 180º, the coil packs would need to move (to clear a heater line on the LIM, and they only have mounts on one side of the UIM). And because of that, the valve covers would need to be swapped to clear the oil filler cap. I don't see a problem with those changes. The right side is better for the oil cap anyway. The dipstick has to stay on the left, but it rises far enough towards the rear that clearance shouldn't be a big issue with the TB relocation. And the coil packs would sit far enough forward that they shouldn't be in the way either.
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:02 am

betterthanyou wrote:Or what if you cut off the tube square right near the edge of the manifold and then found an aluminum elbow that was the same diameter and thickness and welded that on then the weld back on the stock inlet tube?

I plan to investigate that as well. With the angle of the back of the UIM, that might work out.
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:11 am

betterthanyou wrote:Hmm. Have you looked at the 3100 or 3400 intakes. Might be able to make something different work.


I have a full 3400 intake set, two UIM's actually (and nothing else to use them for!). Those rise 8.5" inches. Might work out to put a TB on top of one of those. The UIM is a simpler design for sure.
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6

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Postby Paint chip » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:47 am

Just a thought here, but what about a body lift to get more under hood clearance? When I did my 3.4 I added all this on top and still had abuut 2" of clearance at the front of the air cleaner with 3" body lift.
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Postby Med!c » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:42 pm

Red0ktober wrote:You want to install an older engine?


I mean it would just be easier. Im all for high tech engines with sensors and everything, but.. thats assuming its stock or a direct swap. lol. Seems like swapping a TBI engine is a lot easier than something with a lot of funky wires.
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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:01 pm

It took me a while pouring over wiring diagrams and disassembling harnesses to understand the fuel injection system. Not that I understand all the magic that happens in the ecu, I just have a pretty good grasp on what all the sensors do and how they're all interconnected. Multiport isn't much more complex than tbi, instead of having two injectiors you have two banks of injectors. The principle is the same. Sequential injection fires the injectiors individually, and all the ecu needs to make that happen is a couple more sensors (cam position, crank position). Not all that much more complex really.
Last edited by Red0ktober on Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby Red0ktober » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:27 pm

I guess a body lift is a possibility, but hood clearance isn't really my biggest worry at the moment.

If I did put a throttle body on top, this is only 2.5" tall:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Spectre/865/98499/10002/-1
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1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
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Postby Red0ktober » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:18 am

I tried to clean my garage so I could fit both these engines and a car inside, but I got distracted by the LX9...

I approached a different problem this evening. The accessory mounts and belt routing. After some attempts at lining up the 2.8L Trooper brackets, I gave up. The aluminum heads have different dimensions and bolt patterns. One bolt can be lined up on each side, but not all three.

I brought up a pic of a fully assembled LX9 and came up with this solution (sans A/C).

Image

Image

Keep the LX9 left bracket, idler, and tensioner. 1st Gen timing cover, crank pulley, water pump, power steering pump, and hopefully A/C (I have the bracket but couldn't find my compressor). The route looks good, just wonder if the tensioner will work well enough with that different angle to the water pump.

What's the catch you ask? Of course there's always a catch. Here it is:

Image

The LX9 brackets sit 2" further back than the 2.8. I think that can be solved simply by making a spacer to either sandwich behind the bracket or weld to it. This would require using the LX9 alternator. The alternator pictured is a dead one from a 2.8, zip-tied in place.

As it sits, it appears this would clear the TB at the front. But still have the proximity of the radiator as an issue there.
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby Red0ktober » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:53 am

I really liked this at first, but I'm just not seeing the tensioner working like I need it to. I think with the proper alternator, the tensioner will work even worse.

Maybe I should go back to modifying the LL2 brackets to match up with the LX9 heads...
Notable vehicles from the current fleet
1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z28 Convertible
formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby Red0ktober » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:17 pm

There's something else I forgot. I have not rotated my LIM yet. So I still have the thermostat/upper radiator to work with. I knew that would have been too easy.

Looking at that pic of the LX9... where is the power steering pump? Are they electric on those cars?
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1965 Ford Galaxie with a turbocharged 351W
1998 Volvo V90 with a Ford 5.0L swap
1971 Opel Kadett Wagon with an EFI conversion
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formerly owned a 1990 Isuzu Trooper LS with a multiport injected 3.4L 60ºV6
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Postby ImpulseRocket89 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:06 pm

Nope, the Power Steering pump is that itty bitty thing on the top right of the front of that engine (you facing it). Its the closest thing to you lol.

One question for you.

Why not just run the LX9 Alternator and PS pump? The alt is probably a higher output and the PS pump is much smaller and more compact. The AC compressor can be deleted easily, and if you wanted to run AC you could adapt it with a custom line or two.
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