Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:28 pm

lorenzo816 wrote:You’d be surprised how many cases people have because they botched the first time.
You’re not even to the point of failure yet.
On the main cluster the grey hub gear is fragile.
It can break and there aren’t any to buy off the shelf.

So if you break yours or warp it, you’ll need to go get a second case to rob it from.
When you get to the main shaft hub gear, spray it. Don’t use heat.
Use the 3 jaw and when it’s tight, smack the end with a bfh.
That way vibration helps walk the gear out.
You may not have an issue since yours is newish and hasn’t been too much trouble yet.
But I’ve seen broken hub gears and warped gears which can walk you into going full manual.
That is of course as long as you don’t mess up pulling the replacement ;)


Like this?
Image

Looks like I might need to find another T-case...Ugh
Can I just look for anything with a 4L30-e in it and pull the T-case?
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:51 pm

Warped like I did.
Or potato chip cracked like Jack did.
Or chewed like Dave did.
F2E1768F-71C0-4428-9483-9C10E9A2696D.jpeg
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:25 pm

Next pull the remaining rail out. Like Lorenzo said, the new rail has a relief cut to accommodate the larger idler gear.
Image

You can see that even with the relief, the clearance is close.
Image

Next you have to pull the gears from the input shaft. This has been on the left in all of my pictures so far, and looks like this.
Image

Don't do this!
Image

Because this will happen, if you're lucky it will only be this bad.
Image

Instead, put your clam shell puller under both gears, and make sure not to smash the snap ring hanging loose down there as well. This picture was taken after I pressed the gears off in the with the hydraulic press. The gear in my hand is the grey gear that Lorenzo was talking about being brittle.
Image
Image

The gear I'm holding is the other gear you are replacing. It lifts right off that bearing, and the new one slips right on. Be careful of those needle bearings.
Image

Use the press to fit everything back on, but watch as it seats and don't use too much press, or you shatter that grey gear like this, and swear so loud that your neighbors ask if you are okay (but didn't actually check to make sure that you were).
Image

Now I have to go pull another T-case for sure and join the club of others that have messed this up. If anyone knows exactly what year/model of vehicle to pull from, that would be very helpful. There are two 2nd gen (but pre-'98) auto Troopers at the pull n pay down the street so I plan on going first thing tomorrow. There are always a bunch of Rodeos around as well. The gear I broke has 48 teeth. Let me know if you know anything.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:09 pm

To be continued...
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:51 pm

I didn't put the clam shell splitter under the low gear. If that worked for you, then great.
I put mine under the hubgear and pulled with a 2 jaw on the rods of the clam shell until it moved enough to switch back to the 3 jaw. Have to just have enough space to get the puller ears under the hub gear.

Now for removing the hub gear, The trick is to get the puller just tight enough and smack the rod end of the puller with a big Fkn hammer so the vibration walks it out some.
Then tighten the puller until its tight again and smack it again and repeat until you can easily just turn the puller and you see it walking out without the impact vibration to convince it to back out.

Sorry you joined the club. I think its a 50/50 club of those who get it right or lucky the first time and those who don't.
From our texts earlier, go after a 98+ auto case behind a 4l30 in a rodeo. Those will have the same gear tooth count as yours. Obviously an Ar5 case would work too. Duh. But harder to find.
The 98-02 trooper auto were ToD so nope. Worst case scenario you can go after a a full mua5 transmission from a 98+ rodeo / passport and just take the parts you need from the back half.

You'll get it. You're almost there.
Also I wouldn't use a hydraulic press for any of this work. In case you are.

Also don't lose that ball bearing under the roller/needle bearing collar under the low gear on the main shaft.
Make sure its back in its keyhole when you put it back.
Slap some synthetic grease on the needle bearings too when you slide the collar back on. Not too much just a dab. Oil will get in there eventually.
This is just to help with the heat at first before everything gets juiced up.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:57 pm

The hydrolic press has been a God send so far. It allows me to go slow taking stuff off. I'm going to have the chance to look at the input shaft before I remove stuff the second time around. I was at eye level with everything as I pressed that grey gear back on, but there was still a little space under that ball bearing so I thought it still had more to go. I felt it tighten up right before the last pull on the handle that cracked that gear. I should have trusted my gut!
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:00 pm

Actually here you can see I pulled on the low gear, because it doesn't matter - you are taking it out anyhow.
2015-01-28 19.46.20.jpg


here are the sleeves I used to hammer the hub gear back on.
Find some sockets if you can't find any old leaf spring sleeves or tube or whatever - but if you use sockets they have to be deep enough for the main shaft.
2015-01-28 20.25.41.jpg

2015-01-28 20.25.29.jpg
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:02 pm

Yeah but the press don't make any vibrations, which is what the brittle hub gear needs since it will potato chip on you or warp.
Yeah the hydraulic press works for bearings but not this super important stupid un-obtainium isuzu gear.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:06 pm

Oh and as for space.... You wouldn't believe how many times I've had people text me or send me fb messenger videos of this space.
This is normal:
Watch
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XwVLxSXJLzsYtvHi6
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:14 pm

Well, with the clam shell under the low gear, it doesn't put much pressure on the grey gear. It went in smooth, but as we all know now, I went too far and crushed it on the way in.

Vibrations are a serious help though. When I was doing the body lift, I was using an oscillating saw trying to cut the body bolts, and after a few minutes, they would just fall out from the vibration. I was about to go grab that same saw and hold it on the shaft, but I got a text from a mechanic buddy that showed me how to place the clam shell. He said, "Don't use a 3-jaw on that, it'll only break your heart." I laughed and cried at the same time because that's true!
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:02 am

Got transfer case? I do. :(

Image

I'm literally using this thread to walk myself through the break down of this second case. I'm so glad I made this how-to.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:20 am

Quick update. I AM working on this, but I'm struggling getting all the shafts (with gears installed) back in. It seems like they all need to go in at the same time, or in a specific order. I just haven't figured it out yet. Once I get everything back in, I'm pretty much done. I keep getting side lined by dumb stuff like the sleeve falling off the front shaft gear and the little pins falling out, then me having to try and figure out how every goes back together by looking at the other (partially disassembled) case; so thank God I have that as a reference.

Not exciting, but wanted to let people know that I haven't abandoned this or anything.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:54 am

Best way I have found is to hold the 3 gearset cluster together as best you can with the shift forks in place on the rails.
Don't hammer the pins in yet. Guide ALL of it together in just about to where the snap rings will go, maybe a half inch from the set position.
Then you have to get your main shift rail set in then insert spring plunger in from the shifter hole, then slide the 4wd rail in place.
spring-IMG_2697.JPG

diagram here top left number 9,10 (8 is the ball sensor)
book-IMG_2727.JPG

Again here facing the other direction, left side is passenger:
book2-IMG_2728.JPG


I still don't have any of the pins in place yet.
Then push the gearset cluster into the remaining space and set the snap rings.
Make sure the rails are rotated in the correct position. You'll notice on the back half of the case there is a diagonal slot to keep one lined up, whereas the 4wd rail it should be obvious as its got a flat side for the spring plunger facing the driver side. You can see them here: (edit, also obvious should be the tooth on the rear end of the gear has to face the correct position for the electric motor.)
rear.JPG

Only after I am sure I have my snap rings set, do I then go for hammering the pins back in. Then the front output seal once I know I'm done done.
There are slots on the ends of the rails to use a flat head to twist if you need to once you have it together to ensure everything is lined up good. You would have to knock out the plugs on the back. Dont use a punch, use a socket extension and gently tap them out. When you put them back, use rtv to seal them up keep from leaking under pressure.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:49 pm

I got everything back in place late last night. I'll update some time today.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:53 pm

This was the best way I was able to get everything back in. I can't say it's the only way, or even the right way, but I had to try this multiple times to get everything back together. Basically, start by placing the idler gear in position, but don't push it down into the hole at all. Once the idler is in place, you can put the fwd gear set in it's hole as well. You have to leave the idler loose because you'll need to lift it up and down to fit each of the other gears with the shift collars around the idler.
Image

Once the fwd gears are in place (but not all the way in place), you can fit these two shift rails together, and slide them into position together.
Image
Image

You can see in this photo how the shift fork and collars interfere with the idler. This is why the idler is left loose so you can lift it up enough to clearance those shift forks under the top idler gear.
Image

Once both shift forks are in position, you can start to tap everything into place. You'll want to be a bit careful how you go about seating each of the three shafts. I tapped them in with soft deadblow hammer. You need to be careful because the clearance between each of the gears is so tight if you seat the idler too deep, it hangs up on top of the other two gears, and vice versa. So once you start tapping everything into place, once you hit resistance, stop and see what's going on. This isn't something that should, or even can be, forced.
Image

When it comes to placing those lower, inside snap rings back, I found that long nose straight, and bent, needle nose pliers works very well.
Image
Image

The snap ring on the idler leaves little clearance to use pliers though. This is where the Jerry method comes in with using a zip tie. If you remember, I tried to use this method with wire on the disassembly, but it kept breaking. I don't know how a plastic zip tie holds up better, but it does.
Image

Lorenzo pointed out that each of the seats for the gears has an opening opposite of where the snap ring arms fit. In each case, you can use a screw driver to hold the snap ring in place, then let go, or cut the zip tie at the front and it snaps into position.
Image
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:35 pm

That is all I have for photos. Review Lorenzo's posts about the pins in the shift rails and make sure that you check that you've staked each drive shaft nut as you put them back on, have all your snap rings and bearings back in place (the bearing on the idler gear will no longer have a snap ring so you should have one extra when you're done.

A few notes on reassembly:
- When you get the cases back together, both the shifter housing and the 4wd motor will still be off the case. What I did was put the shifter housing, AND the shifter back into place. This allowed me to shift into 4-low, which allows the shift rail for the 4wd motor to be pushed in. Once you install the 4wd motor, then shift back into Hi range. I then took apart the shift housing, cleaned up the old gasket and sealed with the Ultra Grey sealant that Indy4x sends with the gears.
- Be careful of the 4wd actuator plugs. I broke the same one on BOTH transfer cases that I got.
- At some point, when manipulating the front wheel drive gears, the shift fork fell off and the collar slipped out, exposing these little filler gear things. They all fell out and I had to look at the spare case to figure out which way they go in. This is how they are oriented. You shouldn't have to deal with this at all, but if you do, here is the photo.
Image

Overall, I'd put this process as somewhere around a 5-7 on a 1-10 scale of difficulty for DIY stuff. Where I'd rate a battery change as a 1, suspension lift and ball joint flip as a 4, and a diff drop and locker install as a 5.

Honestly, I haven't done a ton of vehicle stuff in my life, so I'm not the best judge. I don't have much experience, but in doing this I realized that I've got quite a lot of tools that make this easier (3-jaw puller, hydraulic press, etc).

I'm sure this could have been more thorough, and I feel like toward the end I got a little worn out and just wanted to finish and didn't take every possible photo. I hope this helps people in the future tackle this job. Enough people on here have done this that there should be help for anyone who attempts.

Bonus photo: The 41mm socket that I made, worked for turning this nut on, and torqueing it back on again.
Image
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:46 pm

I hope everything shifts smoothly. Looks pretty good to me except the synchro 'dog teeth' and I'm going to have to verify on a case once I get another one apart.
The book and my memory remember this as the orientation. If anyone has done a synchro gear on a NP case before, they are set the same way.
synchro.PNG
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:10 pm

I thought about digging through the manual for the orientation of those dog teeth. Instead I just looked at the spare case. I had to use a mirror to see the teeth. They are beveled on one side and I was able to see the bevel sticking out so I just went that way. I also hope they are in correctly, because I don't want to have to do this all over again anytime soon.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:57 pm

The C shape to them hold the c ring in place on the synchro.
See how it shifts and then decide if you want to reset them shouldn’t be a full tear down
Honestly
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:27 pm

I just did a revo set in a 4cylinder mua5. The procedure is the same for a v6 mua5 as all the rails have to come out, compared to an auto case.
I wanted to point out the synchro details here for anyone else who is trying to follow along. Now if you get frustrated and want to say F it, you totally can, it just that your shifts will be a bit harsh and you need to come to a complete stop and wait for the parasitic rotation to stop moving, which is near impossible. Over the years, Isuzu used synchros off and on even on some auto applications and on the 4wd cluster for SOTF models. I don't have a pattern to it or years to keep up with. I do know that you can't mix rear clams of a synchro hub main shaft with a non synchro, as you won't get the case to close all the way. Something about the bevel in the rear clam gear that doesn't fit the dish of the synchro at all.
Anyhow, down to details:
On both sides of the hub gear is a huge snap ring. The C shape of the dog teeth grab the snap ring and hold it in place.
IMG_3389.JPG

You will need to line up the bottom synchro with the 3 open positions on the hub gear. Look closely and you'll see it.
IMG_3387.JPG

This is where the dog teeth sit and there is a corresponding 3 open gaps on the upper synchro too.
Now I've never been able to hammer the hub gear back in and magically keep the teeth in place. Vibration makes it impossible.
Also here is the other hard part, you have to have the shift fork in place before you put the hub gear back in, which you should mark on the outside the 3 gaps in the satellite hub gear. This is where the dog teeth wiggle when the satellite gear slides back and forth over the hub gear. I don't have a picture of it but all satellite gears have pieces of the splines taken out in 3 places. Mark that with a paint pen or something on the outside as you will use that to line up the hub gear when you hammer it down to line up with the synchro on the bottom.

Once the hub gear is in place, use a pic to pull the bottom snap ring in and wiggle the C of the dog teeth one by one into place holding the bottom snap ring. Yes this is difficult to do. Dog teeth might fly so keep a clean work space here and a magnet handy.

Once set, It will look like this and you can see the teeth kind of sticking in because of the bottom snap ring tension.
IMG_3388.JPG

Then place the upper snap ring in the teeth like the first picture above.
Then place the synchro with its corresponding gaps on the dog teeth.
Here is the top synchro in place.
IMG_3390.JPG

The dog teeth are not easy and you can remove them if you want to but it does make shifting nicer.


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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:38 am

Okay, everything has been buttoned back up for a bit, and I went ahead and replaced all of the exhaust from the collector just in front of the CAT and back with 2.5" stainless CAT, Magnaflow muffler, and pipe while I had everything apart.

I test drove a few times and a few miles while I worked out the shifter clearance issues after the 1" body lift and to make sure there were no exhaust leaks. I didn't hear or feel anything out of place during the test drives.

This morning, and the first time I drove with all the shift boots and center console back in place, I'm hearing a nose coming from the drive train. Fortunately, I only drove 1.5 miles at surface street speeds. I got it home and drove up and down the street (after all the snow had melted) and it sounded like the noise was coming from the front passenger wheel. I pulled it into the garage and put the whole thing on jack stands and have isolated the noise to the rear output of the transfer case. There is significant play when I rotate the rear drive shaft back and forth by hand.

I remembered feeling that one of the U-joints felt pretty rough before I reinstalled, and I think it was the front one, but there is no way I would not have noticed this sound while driving with the shift boots off.

I'm going to start by disconnecting the drive shaft and seeing how spinning the transfer case sounds and check the U-joint as the low hanging fruit. Not sure where I'll go from there.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:20 pm

Did some more testing and it is definitely the transfer case gears rattling around. I'll have some videos up in a few minutes.

On the bright side, I don't have to remove the transmission, transmission support, or exhaust to get just the transfer case back out. I also have an entire extra transfer case (minus that grey gear) available to look at and borrow parts from. I'm hoping for some help in diagnosing this rattle in case I can't figure it out. All of this stuff is brand new to me.

This is the transfer case spinning with the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItI2kFd ... annel=StuA

Here is the transfer case spinning with the transmission in fifth gear and the clutch engaged.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MCYYxE ... annel=StuA
Last edited by Enemigo on Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:10 pm

Sounds like something didn’t mesh right and a tooth or two have broken.
It’s slapping as it’s skipping teeth somewhere on the main shaft.
Glad you got a spare. Take it apart and check the hub gear and main shaft low gear.
The idler and 4wd cluster aren’t spinning in 2wd. I’m actually really surprised here.
Interested in what you find out for sure.
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby Enemigo » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:41 pm

I found this video about a Suzuki transfer case and it seems like a similar sound.

https://youtu.be/3mA7252JESk
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Re: Revolution Gear 3:1 install ('99 Trooper manual)

Postby lorenzo816 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:23 pm

Similar sound yes. However you can't adjust the side to side of the gears as they are fixed in position by the two case clams. Neither can that suzuki case by the looks of it.
Could be worn 4wd cluster gearset in his case. In your case, its the main drive teeth somewhere are slapping, in my opinion.
Take it apart and see what you actually have going on. From hearing a busted ring and pinion skipping teeth, that is what that sounds like. Or a snap ring wasn't set and its getting slapped around inside.
1997 Solid Axle Rodeo :: Ar5 swap :: Revo 4Lo :: 5.29/5.36 :: Front OX :: Rear ARB :: Full Float :: Chromoly Bling Bling
Build: 3-link coilover front 44 & rear FZJ80 on 37's
PM me if you need anything - Need a Skull Planet Isuzoo sticker?
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