Contemplating cutting it off

Discuss anything related to drivetrain mods here (Engine &Transmission Swaps, lift, gearing, exhaust, etc)

Moderator: Staff

Contemplating cutting it off

Postby TonkaToy » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:53 am

At the spring Uwharrie run I discovered my newly acquired trail pig had some issues. The first glaring issue was that the welded front diff the previous owner had bragged about for AMAZING off-road traction also made it nearly impossible to steer. This also lead to be breaking both front CV joints over the period of a weekend. That issue was fixed this past weekend when Mr Dungee came out and saved me from multiple curse laden rants had I tried to fix this pile of pig iron by myself. My 94 Trooper now has an open front diff, and both front axle shafts have been replaced.

The second problem we discovered while wheeling is that the rear springs were shot. So bad that by the end of the weekend the truck was sitting a full 2" shorter in the back and I basically drove it home riding the rear bump stops the whole way. This too was fixed this weekend. I swapped in a set of front coils off a Cherokee. I am super impressed with the ride quality and height. This has lead to a new problem though... The rear now sits an inch or two higher than the front. Now the springs may settle some which will help. My first thought was to turn up the torsion bars, but unfortunately they are already turned up and don't have a lot of down travel left. I can probably get the inch I need, but it will be at the expense of ride quality due to the front suspension having no travel.

This leads me to my current thought. Is it time to pull out the torch and cut the independent suspension off and go SAS? I'm currently running 32" MTRs but down the road wouldn't mind going bigger... :twisted: This is just a trail truck. I want it to work on the trail. To me, that means ground clearance, range of suspension travel and articulation. I would love to see it one day on 35s with coils or coil overs up front. That is long term though.

Any other thought on an option I have missed before I go get liquored up one night and torch the front suspension?
Mike M.
Richmond, VA
1994 Trooper LS 3.2 DOHC 5spd Trail pig
2002 Trooper SOLD
1989 Trooper LS SOLD
2015 Honda Accord (DD)
2016 F-250 (Tow rig/Workhorse/Plow truck)
User avatar
TonkaToy
Almost Joe Isuzu
 
Posts: 2333
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Richmond, VA
Has thanked: 37 times
Have thanks: 31 times

Sponsor
 

Re: Contemplating cutting it off

Postby Enemigo » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:40 am

Everyone that gets up to a 3" lift, 33" tires, and their first broken axle comes to the same point you are at. There are limits to factory IFS, and it doesn't take much to reach them.

First, the spring height is way more easy to fix than two broken axles and a welded diff. Just get new springs that fit better. You can lower the front down to a more reasonable height as well. I just wanted to throw that out there, but it sounds like the deeper issue is the first thing I talked about.

The best advice I've gotten about this is something along the lines of, "pick the truck that you like the looks of, and that you want to work on. Because no matter what truck you pick, you're going to change everything out until you're happy. Tires, springs, shocks, axles, or motors, etc."

I'd say to start researching what it will realistically take to complete a SAS on your truck, and look through the list and see if you're willing to do, or pay to have all that done. If this truck is your favorite and you like to figure out custom stuff, because there is very little support for this platform, then might as well get started.

If the idea of having to modify the driveline, axles, steering, springs, shocks, etc, etc doesn't sound found, or you'd rather start with solid axles and build a different platform, then I'd go that route.
1999 Amigo - Sold
1999 Trooper. Mods TBD
Enemigo
Zu Royalty
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Colorado metro area
Has thanked: 7 times
Have thanks: 40 times

Re: Contemplating cutting it off

Postby Shawn Anthony » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:46 am

Its time to install a solid axle up front.
Shawn Anthony
Trail Scout
 
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:11 pm
Location: Northern Nevada
Has thanked: 1 time
Have thanks: 34 times

Re: Contemplating cutting it off

Postby paulevans76 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:04 am

One of us... one of us... one of us... :mrgreen:

BUT - it's a major expense in terms of both money and time. Make sure you're ok with that. The big items like spring hangers and leafs and ubolts will get an axle under there pretty easy, but it gets tricky with the steering and driveshafts and then all of the nickel dime stuff. A link suspension adds additional complexities for not only the suspension itself but also with how it must interact with the steering geometry.
Scratch n Dent special 1991 Trooper S
3.4 V6 - Holley TBI, CompCams 252H, 1.6:1 roller rockers, +1mm DOHC pistons, MSD ignition, custom tune, "Ed Mc Special" 2.5" exhaust
MUA5 w/ 3.07's & fixed yoke
SAS - Waggy F D44 - 5.38's, RCV's, OX locker; Rodeo R 44 - Detroit, truss
Front Y-link radius arms, coils; Rear SOA, OME leaves, anti-wrap bar
35x12.50/17 General Grabber X3's on 17x9 Interco Birddogs
Trail armor and Warn XD9000
The White Whale - a temporary daily driver 1991 Trooper - 2.8 V6, MUA5 - stocker resto (sold)
1994 Samurai - 1.3 FI - OME suspension, 31's, 6.5:1 tcase, 5k milemarker SxS winch, more to come!
User avatar
paulevans76
Almost Joe Isuzu
 
Posts: 2081
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:04 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Has thanked: 227 times
Have thanks: 185 times

Re: Contemplating cutting it off

Postby TonkaToy » Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:17 am

paulevans76 wrote:One of us... one of us... one of us... :mrgreen:


Paul,
Link suspension is the direction I am leaning. Yes, not cheap or easy, but it is where I want to see this build go. My ideal Trooper will be coil springs, solid axle front & rear. ARB front, locked rear. 5.38 on 35s. That is where I would like to see this end up. Yes, the front end is my enemy. My plan is to source a front axle, the gears, and lockers. Then turn the fab work over to someone like Indy4x. I know my limits, and calculating links & linkages are beyond my comfort level.

Now... Where did I plant that money tree???
Mike M.
Richmond, VA
1994 Trooper LS 3.2 DOHC 5spd Trail pig
2002 Trooper SOLD
1989 Trooper LS SOLD
2015 Honda Accord (DD)
2016 F-250 (Tow rig/Workhorse/Plow truck)
User avatar
TonkaToy
Almost Joe Isuzu
 
Posts: 2333
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Richmond, VA
Has thanked: 37 times
Have thanks: 31 times

Re: Contemplating cutting it off

Postby paulevans76 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:12 pm

My only other opinion - if one end is going to have an auto locker and one end is going to have a selectable, I'd think about selectable rear and auto front. A constantly locked rear can cause 'trail understeer' in a lot of situations. It plows you forward at all times, vs allowing you to use the front end to pull the vehicle around an obstacle. On the road it makes things more 'spirited' in the wet and sharp turns on dry pavement.
Ideally you can go selectable at both ends. I've got a detroit rear and OX front, and I'd really like to try it switched around.

This video is a pretty interesting look at front only vs rear only vs both. Plus his shorty 70 series rules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuzGxAK ... MadMatt4WD
Scratch n Dent special 1991 Trooper S
3.4 V6 - Holley TBI, CompCams 252H, 1.6:1 roller rockers, +1mm DOHC pistons, MSD ignition, custom tune, "Ed Mc Special" 2.5" exhaust
MUA5 w/ 3.07's & fixed yoke
SAS - Waggy F D44 - 5.38's, RCV's, OX locker; Rodeo R 44 - Detroit, truss
Front Y-link radius arms, coils; Rear SOA, OME leaves, anti-wrap bar
35x12.50/17 General Grabber X3's on 17x9 Interco Birddogs
Trail armor and Warn XD9000
The White Whale - a temporary daily driver 1991 Trooper - 2.8 V6, MUA5 - stocker resto (sold)
1994 Samurai - 1.3 FI - OME suspension, 31's, 6.5:1 tcase, 5k milemarker SxS winch, more to come!
User avatar
paulevans76
Almost Joe Isuzu
 
Posts: 2081
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:04 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Has thanked: 227 times
Have thanks: 185 times

Re: Contemplating cutting it off

Postby Enemigo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:03 pm

There is no pulling around an obstacle when locked in the front. Given the choice, I'd go selectable up front and wouldn't even consider the other way around.

EDIT: Now that I'm not on my mobile I can clarify. My opinion is that locked in the rear has way better manners than in the front. You loose a lot of steering in the front when locked, and understeer is a real issue. To your point Paul, I've had to unlock my front when trying to do a 3-point turn on a fire road before. I was trying to back up the hill and turn around, because of the front locker, instead of steering up the hill, the front just moved the entire vehicle the same way the front wheels were pointed, and it almost caused me to flop. So pushing from the rear is possible, but with the front unlocked and able to steer, I imagine it'd be much less of an issue with the rear locked. I'd also consider what the truck is doing the vast majority of the time, which is driving forward. Meaning examples like mine are pretty few and far between.
1999 Amigo - Sold
1999 Trooper. Mods TBD
Enemigo
Zu Royalty
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Colorado metro area
Has thanked: 7 times
Have thanks: 40 times

Re: Contemplating cutting it off

Postby paulevans76 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:01 am

There are definitely times when either would be better or worse. It may make a slight difference too when you are talking about a selectable locker that 100% locks the front vs a ratcheting locker that can have a little give in it. I think if you add in hydraulic assist steering you make things easier in either case, which is hopefully something that I can add to mine soon. I can't steer for ---- when the front is fully locked and only barely when it's not! But I think my system is fairly worn out.

I also think that street manners can definitely take a hit with an auto locker in the rear. So it will depend on what conditions you'll potentially be living with or experiencing driving to the trail.
Scratch n Dent special 1991 Trooper S
3.4 V6 - Holley TBI, CompCams 252H, 1.6:1 roller rockers, +1mm DOHC pistons, MSD ignition, custom tune, "Ed Mc Special" 2.5" exhaust
MUA5 w/ 3.07's & fixed yoke
SAS - Waggy F D44 - 5.38's, RCV's, OX locker; Rodeo R 44 - Detroit, truss
Front Y-link radius arms, coils; Rear SOA, OME leaves, anti-wrap bar
35x12.50/17 General Grabber X3's on 17x9 Interco Birddogs
Trail armor and Warn XD9000
The White Whale - a temporary daily driver 1991 Trooper - 2.8 V6, MUA5 - stocker resto (sold)
1994 Samurai - 1.3 FI - OME suspension, 31's, 6.5:1 tcase, 5k milemarker SxS winch, more to come!
User avatar
paulevans76
Almost Joe Isuzu
 
Posts: 2081
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:04 am
Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Has thanked: 227 times
Have thanks: 185 times


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron