Wiper relay replacement

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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby brucemc777 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:10 pm

My hands are in the medium-large range, so I only had to scrape skin off. Besides that, get nauseous by contorting myself upside down - couldn't even get a good leg leverage point on the seat-back nor doorpost while inverted.

Removing the glove box is primary.

Next is a matter of contortion in the passenger side floorboard area.

You DEFINITELY want a magnetic LED to light the area to target the screws - given how tight the work area is I could have used two with clips as I would see the objective screws but as soon as I put my hand in there with a tool all I saw was dark.

There are two small boxes you will need to unscrew as the top one is the one you are after but blocked, at least partially, by the lower one. They are attached to the inside body wall to the immediate right or so of where the glove box is (looking at it from the inside), but you still have to get at them by going up and under the glove box area.

As I removed the screws, only a total of two for the bottom box (that also holds another electrical connector) and one for the top box (all screws are just below the boxes themselves) I found having to open up the kick-plate area, for they are very easy to drop. I strongly recommend a strongly magnetized screwdriver, it will cut down on the obscenities, making the possibility of more one-handed work viable as trying to work with two hands in that area, and laughably see what you are doing, is not going to happen.

Disconnecting the electrical connectors at the first opportunity greatly helps because the space is so tight and you still have to manipulate the boxes like a puzzle to get that top one out, even once you have the bottom one disconnected from the body-wall (I am working off of memory, I do not think I disconnected that one from its electrical harness). After that it is a matter of good lighting, getting that lower little box tucked aside and then going after the "Alarm box" (the "Alarm" is that annoying noise when you don't have your seat belt on when you start the car, leave your headlights on upon shut down, and the like, which is on the same board). Note that once you have removed the screws and tucked the lower box out of the way, that top box still has a metal clip that further holds it onto the inside wall, so a little manipulating, twisting, pulling, and in my case swearing, comes into play.

What is worse is trying to get that stuff back in there the way it is supposed to be, I nearly gave up as I suspect some padding with duct tape and no screws would be just as good.

Might be worthwhile going down to the junkyard and pulling one from a wrecked vehicle first - I love that as I would rather make a mistake on a corpse than my working vehicle...

If you can advise at what point you are at and specifically where the impasse is, I'd be glad (only because I like to help, not because of any desire to go inverted again) to try to get to that point and see how the heck I next proceeded.
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby whiteryder » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:37 pm

Just found the Zettler relays on eBay at a reasonable price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/292398176715

Thanks from me too for this thread. Working on a 15 year old car with intermittent issues and no dealer
support is quite a challenge. Good to know there are still a few of us around trying to keep them running. :)
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby brucemc777 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:45 pm

I've got to say in that I tried it, removing the old relay(s) is a bit of a delicate trick. In my experience I found it a heck of a lot easier to pull a board from a junkyard (Which also, if you have not yet pulled your board, gives you experience without fear of damaging anything!!!). As much as a b!!ch it is getting the board out and then reinstalling it, you might want to have a junkyard board on stand-by, and if you go the relay route, before setting the boxes back up in there, test it out. If the fix fails, swap in the other board. As long as you can get a junkyard board, it is cheap and might save you spouting a lot of obscenities-
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby Amigowingnut » Wed May 16, 2018 11:15 am

Does anyone else get this Photobucket 3rd party hosting thing over almost all of the pics members post??? Not every one, but seemingly all of those I need to see to learn anything! I have the same kind of issue with wipers, wont park, no intermittent at all...just want to know where the relays are so I can work on the system. Haynes manual is not great.
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby brucemc777 » Wed May 16, 2018 12:28 pm

If your 1999 Amigo is the same as my 2001 Rodeo, inside the passenger compartment, passenger side of the front seating, to the right of the passenger's feet and about a foot or 18" above the floor, attached to the inside right wall roughly just right of the glove-box. Two boxes. Both have electrical plugs. I had to unscrew both as the one needed is the upper one. Phillips screws. The biggest PITA is you need thin hands and LOTS of light and maybe some Xanax as I had to keep my temper under control.

Access was not through the glove-box area (you still want to remove the glove-box), but by positioning yourself pretty much inverted (upside down...) in the front passenger area with your feet trying to get some leverage against the passenger's seat back or the door-post, as the center console prevents you from just stretching out horizontal. Have your tools in easy reach...

You will likely save yourself a lot of frustration by getting one or two from a junk-yard instead of attempting to replace the relay(s). Problems with them being almost identical, damage in un-soldering and assuring proper connection when the new are soldered in create a lot of chances for error, perhaps and likely more than the chance that the junk-yard board might also be bad-
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby Amigowingnut » Wed May 16, 2018 1:34 pm

Thank you so much! I’m about to go look at it but, given the fact that I am not a small person, I’m figuring I will not be able to get to it the way I need to. I’ll go ahead and put it on the ‘pull’ list for my next trip to pick a part.
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby brucemc777 » Wed May 16, 2018 1:38 pm

If it helps put it in perspective, I'm now hitting the scales at 210 and at 6'2", I have about 20lbs to lose before any of my old suits will fit. When I completed the fix my hands had multiple scrapes and bruises, but it was so nice to see the dang thing finally work!
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby Amigowingnut » Wed May 16, 2018 1:51 pm

OK, the upper box in that space says “alarm”. Another DENSO manufacturing branded box. Nice to see American made stuff in there though. Is the wiper relay part of one of these boxes? Thought I read that somewhere.
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby Amigowingnut » Wed May 16, 2018 1:57 pm

I’m sorry, if I had read more up above I would’ve seen the answer to that last question. Got the boxes out fairly easily and can see nothing that looks like damage but I guess I’ll just go and replace this box with one I’ll grab from a junkyard and hope for the best. Thanks all!
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby brucemc777 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:04 pm

The likely problem is arcing building up carbon deposits on the contacts inside one (and possibly more) of the relays that are in the little enclosed boxes on the board. Some folks have had success replacing the relays themselves, but I can state from experience that just replacing the board is easier and inexpensive if found in a yard.

Oh, btw, I wish you good fortune and luck in getting those buggers screwed back in, I hope you have more maneuvering room than I did-

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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby naedidar » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:40 am

whiteryder wrote:Just found the Zettler relays on eBay at a reasonable price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/292398176715

Thanks from me too for this thread. Working on a 15 year old car with intermittent issues and no dealer
support is quite a challenge. Good to know there are still a few of us around trying to keep them running. :)


Anyone able to confirm these are the correct relays to replace the OEM or NEC version with since Mouser doesn't carry them anymore?
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby whiteryder » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:38 am

I used the relays I bought on eBay and they worked fine.
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Re:

Postby Jandre2k3 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:03 pm

:lol: :D :shock:
Last edited by Jandre2k3 on Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby Jandre2k3 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:09 pm

Gizmo42 wrote:I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the electronics section so feel free to move it.

I just finished replacing the relays for my wipers and took some pics and notes that I thought I would post here. I spent about 1.5 hrs and at least half of that time was testing to see what each relay did. I used a 12 volt test light which esentially grounds the pin with a light as a small load. Apparently the switches connect the ground side of the relay coils since touching one side just gave me a light and touching the other side made the relay operate with the switch off. The relays are in the box marked "Alarm" which actually has nothing to do with the alarm system that I can see.

Sorry the pics are kind of blurry, I should have used macro mode..

Top of the board with relays removed
Image

Notice the solder pads and traces on the top. I think they are double soldered so if something doesnt work right after replacing the relay you might not have gotten enough solder to reach the top pads, or didnt heat the relay pin properly.

Back of the board with the solder points for each relay marked..
Image

Top of the board again with new relays in and labled..
Image

RY1 = horn
RY2 = front wipers
RY3 = not sure but touching the common for the contacts operated the rear wiper. Touching the coil did nothing that I could see.
RY4 = rear wiper
RY5 = rear washer pump

I bought mine from Mouser Electronics for $5.10 each. Apparently they stock the original Fujitsu ones now. Part number 817-FTR-P1CN012N. I ordered 3 since I wasnt sure which was the rear wiper and just replaced them all.

As a side note, if you break one open you will find a smaller Fujitsu FBR-51ND12-W relay inside wrapped in rubber. Thats how they make them quiet.


WORKED!! 2001 RODEO 4x4 LS Front Intermittent, Wiper Park, and Rear Wiper problems... All fixed with this 45 minute job!! Thank you VERY MUCH!!

Searched EVERYWHERE for how to fix this and everywhere else just said to replace the stupid switch arms in the column, and check the fuses; no real fixes to be had.

NOTE: the original part from Mouser is no longer manufactured- I used American Zettler 12V, SPDT, PCB Mount Relay Part Number: AZ943-1CH-12DE (DIRECT REPLACEMENT)


Gizmo42 you are AWESOME!! thank you!!


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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby naedidar » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:47 pm

Just got this done. Weird to have delay again and a wiper that returns to the right place!
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby Jandre2k3 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:54 pm

naedidar wrote:Just got this done. Weird to have delay again and a wiper that returns to the right place!

It took me a month to get used to not having to time turning off the wipers at the bottom.
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby robertgarven » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:32 pm

just read through this thread again this group is fantastic! Wish you could add photos that stayed!!!!
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Re: Wiper relay replacement

Postby mudoilngears » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:07 am

robertgarven wrote:just read through this thread again this group is fantastic! Wish you could add photos that stayed!!!!

You can if you upload them directly to the site instead of using image hosting websites.
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