Fuel pump problem...I think

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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby powndpuppy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:57 pm

Has anybody done a swap from the 2.6 izoozoo-electro-whizzer-leave-you-on-the-roadside-engine to the GM V6? How about to the 23.carbureted engine. Do the car and intake from the 2.3 bolt to the 2.6? I know that the exhaust manifold does. With the GM V6, did you have to change trannies too and how is the difference in mileage and performance? I've had it with the garbage electronics on this 2.6. I live where the daytime temps are over 100 deg. virtually every day in the summer, all summer and often as not, below freezing in the winter, and I can't have a car that will leave me sitting and baking in a canyon 40 miles from the nearest cow (who died 3 years earlier from heat stroke). I need something r-e-l-i-a-b-l-e. zoozoo electronics just don't pass the sniff test for me anymore. Even though I carry a plethora of tools, it is hard to field-rig a new brain or electronic fuel injection circuit in the field, using a matchbook and a pair of paperclips. Even McGuyver would find himself flustered and cussing at and kicking this POS.

I found the fusible links, I think. They're little plastic boxes with clear tops, screwed into the input side of the fuse panel. They're fine and the panel is hot.

I found my fuel pump circuit. It runs from the under the dash fuse panel, under the floor mat, exiting the floor under the PAX seat in a design that I'd call "at best, horribly flawed". The through the floor plug is down in a low spot that would hold water and submerge the connector in deep fording. (Maybe OK in fresh water, definitely BAD in salt, and something as simple as a window cracked in a car wash would flood the depression). I ran power to the fuel pump circuit and it runs. The pump is new and it does push fuel. I have power to the coil with the key on, but no spark. I traded out the coil and tested the one that came off. It was good. I replaced the brain with another used brain. Still no start. Next will be the distributor, I have power to the coil but it isn't sparkling. I'm thinking "bad reluctor in dist. not grounding circuit on rotation". After that comes the torch and engine hoist.

What a can of worms. I'm going to put my old Scout II back on the road and just use this thing as a urinal.
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby kreepnSlayer » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:27 pm

Great page.
Going to try some of these suggestions here. I've been having intermittant issues with my fuel as well.
I have a 1991 trooper with the 3.4 swap. While driving it quit on me and I had to two it home. I tried a few times to mess with things but it just wouldn't start. One day I was screwing around under the hood and left the MAP sensor disconnected. It started but ran rough. I plugged the sensor back in while it was running and the car died. I Unplugged it and it started up again. I remembered that I had another sensor from when I did my swap (one came on the 3.4) so I hooked that up and presto, trooper started and ran great.

Last weekend however no dice. Went to start it and nothing. Unplugged the MAP sensor and still wouldn't start. Very strange. It'll crank and crank but won't spray gas.
I'll try all the methods in this thread and post results.
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby captkai » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:18 am

Electronic Engine Control 2.6L.jpg
This is a deep subject! I'm running the jumpered from a keyed slot right now. I have been having issues with my truck not starting if it has been raining or cold for some time now. I won't bother anyone with my various trials; I'll just state what I found, maybe it applies to others.
1.Fuel pump relay socket was only hot in one slot; there should be 2 hot sockets.
2.the yellow wire that runs from the oil pressure switch to the diode to the fuel pump relay was just touching the oil pressure switch (poor connection)
3.I jumpered the yellow wire up by the fuse/relay box to the + on my battery and I got two hot slots in in the fuel pump relay socket
4. Installed the relay and the truck started right up
5. I reconnected the yellow wire connection because there is a blue wire in there also and I don't know what it does yet.
6. The jumpered relay slots is only temporary and probably dangerous. The fuel pump will continue to run and pump fuel in an accident as long as the key is on!
7. I have attached the schematic I used.
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1990 Extended Cab Isuzu Pickup, 2.6 L 4ZE1; 5 speed 4WD
1994 Isuzu Trooper 3.2 L SOHC automatic
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby bendorfold » Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:22 pm

captkai wrote:I'm running the jumpered from a keyed slot right now.
I have been having issues with my truck not starting if it has been raining or cold for some time now.
Answer: If it's just a "raining or cold" problem. I use kerosene and a paint bush to "wash" the distributor cap and rotor, inside and out, and the wires. WD40 might do the same. This technique eliminates the spark shorting to ground until the parts dry out. Note for cold only: a low compression, 75 psi or less, makes for hard starting when cold.

1.Fuel pump relay socket was only hot in one slot; there should be 2 hot sockets.
Answer: The fuel pump relay only has one "hot at all times" connection. The other one that gets hot is, after the engine is running and the alternator is working, through the engine/charge relay. When cranking/starting the engine, the fuel pump gets its power from the started relay through one of the fuses in the small group of four to the front of the relays.

2.the yellow wire that runs from the oil pressure switch to the diode to the fuel pump relay was just touching the oil pressure switch (poor connection)
Answer: The oil pressure switch, with two yellow wires, will shut the engine off if/when the oil pressures get low so you don't ruin the engine.

A bad alternator is a very common "won't stay running" cause. Symptoms are: engine starts, runs for a couple of seconds and stalls. This is repeatable, start and stall, start and stall. The jumper "fix" will, as Selahdoor said," this will get you home. And/or get you to your next paycheck."
"Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do. Or do without." War Advertising Council: May, 1944

"It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - maxim

mine - 1989 Trooper, 2.6L, 5-spd, 170,742 miles, Stock - Sold
my son - 1992 Trooper, Auto, DOHC, 225,000 miles (362,102 km), Stock -Sold
my son - 1990 Trooper, 5-spd with a 3.1L, 220,000 miles on body, 100,000 miles on engine.
mine - 1996 Trooper, 5-spd Manual, SOHC, 163,849 miles, Aisin Manual Hubs - Totaled
Isuzu mechanic during 1988-1992 Model Years

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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby captkai » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:45 am

Thanks for your answers; I put the relay back in (yellow wire still broken off at oil Press sensor). It has been starting fine all day; next time it won't start after being rained on I will do the jumper test. But in the meantime I better get my windshield resealed-maybe dry wires would help!
1990 Extended Cab Isuzu Pickup, 2.6 L 4ZE1; 5 speed 4WD
1994 Isuzu Trooper 3.2 L SOHC automatic
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby captkai » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:44 pm

Does anybody know what this little electrical component does? I appears to be connected in parallel with the fuel pump. (see arrow)
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1990 Extended Cab Isuzu Pickup, 2.6 L 4ZE1; 5 speed 4WD
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby Apeiron » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:50 pm

bendorfold wrote:
captkai wrote:Answer: The oil pressure switch, with two yellow wires, will shut the engine off if/when the oil pressures get low so you don't ruin the engine.


If the schematics are correct the oil pressure switch will not shut off the pump on low oil pressure, it will keep the pump running as long as there is oil pressure.
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby bendorfold » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:01 pm

captkai wrote:Does anybody know what this little electrical component does? I appears to be connected in parallel with the fuel pump. (see arrow)

Should be a condenser, to control voltage spikes.
"Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do. Or do without." War Advertising Council: May, 1944

"It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - maxim

mine - 1989 Trooper, 2.6L, 5-spd, 170,742 miles, Stock - Sold
my son - 1992 Trooper, Auto, DOHC, 225,000 miles (362,102 km), Stock -Sold
my son - 1990 Trooper, 5-spd with a 3.1L, 220,000 miles on body, 100,000 miles on engine.
mine - 1996 Trooper, 5-spd Manual, SOHC, 163,849 miles, Aisin Manual Hubs - Totaled
Isuzu mechanic during 1988-1992 Model Years

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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby captkai » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:11 pm

I finally just bought a new fuel pump (a Bosche); and replaced it in early May. I also painted the electrical caps where the wires come out of the Pump Hanger with liquid electrical tape and replaced the electrical connector with a "trailer" 2 wire connection. My car has started every time since.... I hope I am not jinxing myself by posting this. I think the fix was the fuel pump (the new "trailer" connectors were in before the new fuel pump and that didn't fix anything). If it was the electrical tape paint......I will never know because I did the paint and pump at the same time! History-the truck would just choose not too start sometimes; trouble shot for a LONG time....
1990 Extended Cab Isuzu Pickup, 2.6 L 4ZE1; 5 speed 4WD
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby bendorfold » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:02 pm

Glad it's working for you. The 2.6L/5-speed combo are so much fun to drive.
"Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do. Or do without." War Advertising Council: May, 1944

"It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - maxim

mine - 1989 Trooper, 2.6L, 5-spd, 170,742 miles, Stock - Sold
my son - 1992 Trooper, Auto, DOHC, 225,000 miles (362,102 km), Stock -Sold
my son - 1990 Trooper, 5-spd with a 3.1L, 220,000 miles on body, 100,000 miles on engine.
mine - 1996 Trooper, 5-spd Manual, SOHC, 163,849 miles, Aisin Manual Hubs - Totaled
Isuzu mechanic during 1988-1992 Model Years
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby Nadz » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:28 am

Hi everyone, I know this is an old post but its relevant to my problem! I have a 1990 Rodeo 2.6L DLX 4ZE1 motor just rebuilt and put back on the road but recently I've experienced problems with the fuel pump. Occasionally on start up it runs for about 4 seconds then sputters and cuts out. When it is working normally the fuel, battery and hand brake lights come up on the dash lights and the air con doesn't work. From gathering information off this post, I decided to check the relays and had the alternator checked. I got new relays and the alternator is fine but I'm still puzzled as to why this problem occurs occasionally. Would appreciate any advice or feed back relating to the issue.

Thanks
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby DSUZU » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:53 am

bump to the top
1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N air filter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar. Engine is bored .020 oversize and upgraded to 1994 pistons, head and EFI system.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years. 1994 Amigo devoured to provide head and EFI system.
Heavily damaged by engine compartment fire while driving on March 24th 2018, condemned by insurance company and taken on March 30th 2018 :cry:.

https://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64060
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby Bjesseg » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:44 am

I have almost the exact same issue as Nadz. Just rebuilt the engine. New fuel pump. I haven't checked the alternator yet or tried the jumper fix. Going to try that today, need to get it home.
1987 Trooper 2.3l manual
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby captkai » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:23 pm

" the fuel, battery and hand brake lights come up on the dash lights and the air con doesn't work" Those are the same symptoms I had on a 3.2l 2004 trooper; I didn't get the alternator tested..but I did take the alternator out and replaced it with a new one from Napa. That fixed my trooper. (car would run, but I never took it out. I just charged the battery and started it to see if magically fixed itself for a few days)
I also had an intermittant start problem with my pick up for a long time (some posts in this thread and a lot of PMs) ; I finally changed the fuel pump and problem went away.
Could your alternator be failing; and it was just working well while it was being tested?
1990 Extended Cab Isuzu Pickup, 2.6 L 4ZE1; 5 speed 4WD
1994 Isuzu Trooper 3.2 L SOHC automatic
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby Bullseye » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:41 pm

Thanks for all the help in this thread. I am about to try jumpering but I have a couple questions first.
88 Trooper II: I have been dealing with a starting problem for months now. I have changed the fuel pump, fuel pump relay, and fuel filter. I had the alternator checked at Advanced Auto. I did not remove it to have it tested, they tested it while running. Historically if I can get it to start it will start the rest of the day with no problem and it runs great. If it doesn't start, it may be hours or a couple days before it will.
Will the alternator test "good" even if it is the problem?
Are their any other pieces of the fuel system I should consider replacing?
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby Selahdoor » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:26 am

Bullseye wrote:Thanks for all the help in this thread. I am about to try jumpering but I have a couple questions first.
88 Trooper II: I have been dealing with a starting problem for months now. I have changed the fuel pump, fuel pump relay, and fuel filter. I had the alternator checked at Advanced Auto. I did not remove it to have it tested, they tested it while running. Historically if I can get it to start it will start the rest of the day with no problem and it runs great. If it doesn't start, it may be hours or a couple days before it will.
Will the alternator test "good" even if it is the problem?
Are their any other pieces of the fuel system I should consider replacing?

Yes, the alternator will "test" good at an auto parts shop, even if it is bad. They do not test the circuit that runs our fuel pump.

Try removing the fuel pump relay, and jumpering in the way I have suggested, which bypasses the relay, and bypasses the alternator circuit, but doesn't leave the fuel pump always powered. (It is only powered when the ignition is turned on.)
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby Bullseye » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:13 pm

I tried jumpering and I could hear the fuel pump running. It cranked but would not start. I must have something else going on. It is a bigger problem because it is intermittent and is getting worse. Any help is greatly appreciated as I am still very much learning.
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby DSUZU » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:23 am

Can you post a picture of your fuel pump relay area? I no longer have a Trooper for comparison, but can offer some trouble shooting ideas. I hav eto compare tests against my 19989 pickup. Dennis
1991 LS Trooper 2.8 V6 5 speed conversion (Sold)
1989 LS Spacecab 2.6 5 speed 4x4 manual hubs, Rodeo torsion bars, extended shackles, 2" lift, K&N air filter (drop in), dump bed conversion, burgundy interior change, warn brush bar. Engine is bored .020 oversize and upgraded to 1994 pistons, head and EFI system.
Previously owned: 1987 Trooper II LS, 1989 Trooper (parts only), 1994 Trooper 3.2 Auto, 1997 Rodeo 2.6 5 speed, 1993 shortbed pickup 2.3 (project - sold) 1992 Rodeo 4x4 LS (parts car, devoured by Spacecab needs) plus some 70 plus other non Isuzu vehicles over the years. 1994 Amigo devoured to provide head and EFI system.
Heavily damaged by engine compartment fire while driving on March 24th 2018, condemned by insurance company and taken on March 30th 2018 :cry:.

https://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64060
City of St Petersburg (Fl) Fleet Maintenance 8/23/83 - 12/4/2018 (Retired). Started new job 6/4/2019. Was retired, now just tired.

If your wife has 5.00, and you have 20.00, your wife has...25.00

"Water is one of the greatest essentials of life. Without water, you can't make coffee."

Forget the "free education". Why waste time. Just give me the "FREE INCOME".
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby TrailerParkNinja » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:12 pm

Hello planet,

Bringing this thread back... My '91 2.6L 5-Speed had left me stranded for the first time. Looking for input/thoughts on things to try tomorrow as I had to leave it where I parked it.

Trooper was running fine in the morning, took it for three five - ten minute drives. Left the Trooper parked for about five minutes to grab some items, came out and only cracks- no fire (did not even try to run once off the starter).

First I did a visual but did not see anything obvious, next check spark with a screwdriver. All leads had decent arcing.

Tried my best to hear the fuel pump but unfortunately with just myself turning the key and being Street Vibrations (huge motorcycle event in Reno) I could not hear anything coming from the tank via drivers seat.

Did a continuity test on ALL fuses and swapped the A/C relay for the fuel pump, no go.

I did the fuel pump and engine relay jumping, still no go.

Thanks in advance for any input!
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby bendorfold » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:51 am

TrailerParkNinja,

Ideas:
A bad alternator would start and stall each time you cranked.

There is a two wire switch in the block ahead of the starter. It is a low oil pressure switch that keeps your engine from going south when low on oil.

In the front of the underhood fuse box, there is a fuel pump fuse that gets power when cranking. It's the 2.8 V6 that you turn the key and listen for the pump. If you don't have power there, the electrical part of your ignition switch could be bad.

The ground wire on top of the fuel pump bracket (on top of the fuel tank) could have broken. I used Windex in a spray bottle (stream setting) to soak the top of the bracket to get cars into the shop (beats pushing). You can access that (with stream setting) from behind the passenger right rear tire.

You can put a jumper in place of your fuel pump relay. The power lead is in the center and the circuit lead is closest to you. They form a 'capital T' when standing by the fender. Selahdoor uses a longer wire and plugs it into the power window relay power circuit (if you don't have power windows). Then you can hear and/or feel the fuel pump running.

There is a diode in the fuel pump circuit, I never had a problem with the diode.

Hope some of this helps.
"Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do. Or do without." War Advertising Council: May, 1944

"It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - maxim

mine - 1989 Trooper, 2.6L, 5-spd, 170,742 miles, Stock - Sold
my son - 1992 Trooper, Auto, DOHC, 225,000 miles (362,102 km), Stock -Sold
my son - 1990 Trooper, 5-spd with a 3.1L, 220,000 miles on body, 100,000 miles on engine.
mine - 1996 Trooper, 5-spd Manual, SOHC, 163,849 miles, Aisin Manual Hubs - Totaled
Isuzu mechanic during 1988-1992 Model Years
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby TrailerParkNinja » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:40 pm

Hey Planet,

Sigh, has anyone had a new fuel pump go out after less than 200 miles?

So a while back I replaced the fuel pump on my '91 2.6. The pump was dead, when I dropped the tank I metered the pump as well put 12V direct to the pump terminals, no worky. I replaced the pump and fuel filter with a NAPA brand.

I guess I could have gotten a defective pump but I wonder if there is something else upstream that is the root cause of the new pump failing... I only suspect the pump is bad as it's all the same symptoms. Cranks fine, spark at the plugs, jumped the fuel pump relay and have constant 12V at the last connector next to the fuel tank.

I bought the most expensive "direct" fit pump from NAPA as it comes with a lifetime warranty, but if the pump is the fault I don't know if I want to stick with that brand/model.

Just the thought of dropping the tank again gives me heartburn especially with a 3/4 full tank. Should have cut out an access hole in the floor while the tank was out last time.
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby bendorfold » Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:17 pm

I have pictures (from Hatch) on where to cut the hole (with tape measurements). Email me at bendorfold(at)comcast(dot)net if you want them.
Last edited by bendorfold on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Use it up. Wear it out. Make it do. Or do without." War Advertising Council: May, 1944

"It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - maxim

mine - 1989 Trooper, 2.6L, 5-spd, 170,742 miles, Stock - Sold
my son - 1992 Trooper, Auto, DOHC, 225,000 miles (362,102 km), Stock -Sold
my son - 1990 Trooper, 5-spd with a 3.1L, 220,000 miles on body, 100,000 miles on engine.
mine - 1996 Trooper, 5-spd Manual, SOHC, 163,849 miles, Aisin Manual Hubs - Totaled
Isuzu mechanic during 1988-1992 Model Years
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby RickP » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:11 am

Have your done a fuel.pressure test to confirm?
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby TrailerParkNinja » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:40 am

Hey RickP,

Not yet, I ordered a fuel pressure test kit from Amazon so I'll find out in the next two weeks, hopefully. My wife and I have had our first baby (a little girl) so free time is hard to come by right now.

Do you know what pressure I should be seeing pre/post fuel pressure regulator? I'd think above 80 before regulator and near 45 after regulator...
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Re: Fuel pump problem...I think

Postby ChazHark » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:24 pm

Did anyone have a solution to this problem?
I have the same issue with my 89 2.6L pickup.
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