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ArcticTrooper said:
, actually in the Chevy world this engine is known as the Iron duke .
Naw, Man, the Iron Duke is the 2.5L(151 CID) 4cyl. 77-93 :D
 

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DREDnot said:
ArcticTrooper said:
, actually in the Chevy world this engine is known as the Iron duke .
Naw, Man, the Iron Duke is the 2.5L(151 CID) 4cyl. 77-93 :D
I'm going to have to 2nd that.

As for the 2.8, the thing I hate the most about it is that mine only gets about 14.5 mpg average, which I think that it is a testament to American engineering when two motors put out the same amount of power and the American motor gets 6 fewer miles per gallon than the Japanese.
Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree here.

testament to American engineering? I'll put the 1989 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight Royale on the table for that one, a mid/full size car, 3800 V6, on regular gas with AC on it would get 32mpg at 70 on the highway, in town, driving with a heavy foot, with AC on would bring 23mpg. My friends with their newer imports couldn't believe it.

On top of that, a family memebrs '99 Grand Prix GTP, s/c 3800 will get the same fuel mileage figures as my Olds did, yet it'll do the 1/4 mile in the high 13's.

I would get right around 20mpg in my '94 2wd Amigo, highway mileage wasn't much better, highest I ever got was 23 or 24, I think gearing and aerodynamics come into play.

I guess if you want to compare, my '96 Town Car, 4.6 V8, bigger and heavier... will bring 24mpg on the low side and 28mpg on the high side for highway fuel econ.

Heck my 1989 RWD Fleetwood Brougham, even bigger and heavier then my Town Car, with an Olds 307 4bbl in proper tune would acheive 24mpg highway... same goes for most other 80's V8 GM boats.

In fact the Japs weren't even the first to have a mass market high power 4cyl... everyone likes to think it was Honda.... in the late 80's GM had the Quad4 producing 180hp and similar torque in it's HO version, then the 190hp limited W-41 version.... but it was a good half decade before Honda came out with an engine producing similar figures.

I can go on and on about this subject tho.....
 

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slurpeemcnacho said:
DREDnot said:
ArcticTrooper said:
, actually in the Chevy world this engine is known as the Iron duke .
Naw, Man, the Iron Duke is the 2.5L(151 CID) 4cyl. 77-93 :D
X3
Alright well I guess I was mistaken on that one, but the 2.8 is still a made out of Iron vs aluminum in the Isuzu motor.

Also about American vs Japaness engines, I just get a little testy when every I have to shell out 60 bucks for a tank of gas one and a half times a week.
 

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squatch said:
Can you say "Chevette motor"?
The chevette(isuzu gemini) wished it had an iron duke. the 2.5 would have been like a big block compared to the 1.4/1.6L(1.8L diesel) chevette motor.
 

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ArcticTrooper said:
but the 2.8 is still a made out of Iron vs aluminum in the Isuzu motor.
Only the isuzu head is aluminum. The engine block is iron like the 2.8
 

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ArcticTrooper said:
slurpeemcnacho said:
DREDnot said:
ArcticTrooper said:
, actually in the Chevy world this engine is known as the Iron duke .
Naw, Man, the Iron Duke is the 2.5L(151 CID) 4cyl. 77-93 :D
X3
Alright well I guess I was mistaken on that one, but the 2.8 is still a made out of Iron vs aluminum in the Isuzu motor.

Also about American vs Japaness engines, I just get a little testy when every I have to shell out 60 bucks for a tank of gas one and a half times a week.
Alot of engines were made of iron and not aluminum.... the nick name "iron duke" tho went to the Pontiac 2.5L I4, not all that powerful, but really never stopped running.

Yeah, the gas prices stink, but I wouldn't blame not only high gas prices, but the gas mileage that one engine gets, as saying a whole country can't make good engines compared to another.

Cost to fill is also not really realitive, as it depends on how much gas the tank holds.... people with small cars like to always say "it only cost $XX to fill" Well yeah, your tank is half the size of mine. Dunno about your Trooper, but my Amigo has a 22gallon tank, the Town Car has a 20 gallon tank.... like I said, both run on regular, and both get nearly the exact same mixed driving MPG.
 

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DREDnot said:
ArcticTrooper said:
but the 2.8 is still a made out of Iron vs aluminum in the Isuzu motor.
Only the isuzu head is aluminum. The engine block is iron like the 2.8
in reference to the 2.6?

I thought the whole engine was aluminum, not just the head?

Heh, my Caddy 4.9..... aluminum block and cast iron heads ;)
 

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Night Wolf said:
Yeah, the gas prices stink, but I wouldn't blame not only high gas prices, but the gas mileage that one engine gets, as saying a whole country can't make good engines compared to another.

Cost to fill is also not really realitive, as it depends on how much gas the tank holds.... people with small cars like to always say "it only cost $XX to fill" Well yeah, your tank is half the size of mine. Dunno about your Trooper, but my Amigo has a 22gallon tank, the Town Car has a 20 gallon tank.... like I said, both run on regular, and both get nearly the exact same mixed driving MPG.
Look, I don't think think that American engineering is necessarily worse than Japanese, but I do think think that America has been slacking in more resent years. For example the ford escape hybrid uses a Toyota designed engine instead of them taking the time to invent a new technology that doesn't conflict with Toyota's patents.

Also auto makers tend to make gas tanks about big enough to last 300 to 400 miles, so its all about how much you have to pay to get that 300/400 miles. or at least that is what I have seen in the cars Iv owned and that my family has owned, so your experiences may be different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I might as well put my 2cents in since I started this thread. But if you ask me American companies are definitely capable of making the most fuel efficient engine, they just don't do it. Could they, yes they definitely could. Who was first? Who cares. Why don't they build super efficient four bangers, or bio-diesel hybrids? Why? That's the real question.

IMO: I think many car companies must be tied to big oil in some way and may not be allowed to create a vehicle that is super economical or creates no emmissions for the possibilty of what it could do to the oil biz. Those oil people are powerful folks, they control our lives whether you want to face it or not. They could literally build houses out of stacks of currency.

The way I see it, a car company in a "free" market should supply whatever the market demands. In our current case with the price of fuel rising ever higher and environmental standards closing in we need engines that use minimal or no gas. It's not like it's not possible, it's just not getting to us for some reason. US car co's needed to be nudged by other car companies into building efficient 4cyls because they were losing buisness right here in the US in the gas crunch of the 70's. That's why US companies even started to try. Developing nations don't have as much cash to waste on giant Hummers and Excursions so of course they figured out how to do it right, early on mostly because they had to. But wasn't the Model A or T a four banger? So US, four bangers have been around for years right?

It's not the question of who can do build what? But more importantly the question of why don't they build it? We all know what's possible. The technology is already out there. It's already grass roots, people are building hydrogen generators very simply in their garages, attaching them to their intakes, and boosting their gas mileage. And as soon as people realize they literally have the power to create power that's when things will change and the issue of who can do what, or who did it first, or best won't even matter. But as for now I will still keep looking for that four banger.
 

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ArcticTrooper said:
Night Wolf said:
Yeah, the gas prices stink, but I wouldn't blame not only high gas prices, but the gas mileage that one engine gets, as saying a whole country can't make good engines compared to another.

Cost to fill is also not really realitive, as it depends on how much gas the tank holds.... people with small cars like to always say "it only cost $XX to fill" Well yeah, your tank is half the size of mine. Dunno about your Trooper, but my Amigo has a 22gallon tank, the Town Car has a 20 gallon tank.... like I said, both run on regular, and both get nearly the exact same mixed driving MPG.
Look, I don't think think that American engineering is necessarily worse than Japanese, but I do think think that America has been slacking in more resent years. For example the ford escape hybrid uses a Toyota designed engine instead of them taking the time to invent a new technology that doesn't conflict with Toyota's patents.

Also auto makers tend to make gas tanks about big enough to last 300 to 400 miles, so its all about how much you have to pay to get that 300/400 miles. or at least that is what I have seen in the cars Iv owned and that my family has owned, so your experiences may be different.
I'm sorry but these "hybrids" are nothing but a stepping stone, and IMO, not even in the right direction. Ford/GM really didn't even want to waste their time with it, but consumers now demand it to out-do their next door neighbors, so they put them out. GM and Ford are both putting alot of time and money into hydrogen fuel cells, which I feel is the better direction, which Honda, Nissan and Toyota are not doing... it may not be the solution, but, IMO it's a step in the right direction, unlike gasoline hyrbids.

BTW did you know Ford has been making flexfuel (E-85) vehicles since the 90's.... all the Taurus' and Rangers with the leaf badge on the back are FFV, and most owners don't even know it.

How has America been slacking? In fact, GM is leading the whole MPG thing, especially in their full size trucks.... what has America been slacking on? fuel mileage? where?

I agree with you, that most cars are designed to go 300-400 miles between tanks.... unless it's a Town Car then you've got a 500mile+ range out of the trusty ol' 20 gallons ;) :) Still tho, someone that says "it only cost me $30 to fill up" is just irreverent for many reasons.
 

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datroopa said:
I might as well put my 2cents in since I started this thread. But if you ask me American companies are definitely capable of making the most fuel efficient engine, they just don't do it. Could they, yes they definitely could. Who was first? Who cares. Why don't they build super efficient four bangers, or bio-diesel hybrids? Why? That's the real question.

IMO: I think many car companies must be tied to big oil in some way and may not be allowed to create a vehicle that is super economical or creates no emmissions for the possibilty of what it could do to the oil biz. Those oil people are powerful folks, they control our lives whether you want to face it or not. They could literally build houses out of stacks of currency.

The way I see it, a car company in a "free" market should supply whatever the market demands. In our current case with the price of fuel rising ever higher and environmental standards closing in we need engines that use minimal or no gas. It's not like it's not possible, it's just not getting to us for some reason. US car co's needed to be nudged by other car companies into building efficient 4cyls because they were losing buisness right here in the US in the gas crunch of the 70's. That's why US companies even started to try. Developing nations don't have as much cash to waste on giant Hummers and Excursions so of course they figured out how to do it right, early on mostly because they had to. But wasn't the Model A or T a four banger? So US, four bangers have been around for years right?

It's not the question of who can do build what? But more importantly the question of why don't they build it? We all know what's possible. The technology is already out there. It's already grass roots, people are building hydrogen generators very simply in their garages, attaching them to their intakes, and boosting their gas mileage. And as soon as people realize they literally have the power to create power that's when things will change and the issue of who can do what, or who did it first, or best won't even matter. But as for now I will still keep looking for that four banger.
if you can sift thru some of the liberal propaganga, watch the movie "who killed the electric car" sometime....
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Jeez, I kinda went off on a tangent on that last post. Sorry about that but I like to speak my mind. Seems like too many people just accept what's handed to them, they never question anything. My main point I was trying to make was that we can do better, if only it's allowed to happen.

And Night Wolf, I did see that movie. Some views were the same as what I believe. I'm not sure what part of it you thought was liberal propaganda, but I know what you mean. Aside from all that though it had a good message. I know it's tough to take all that pro green biz spoon fed to ya. But when you look at environmentalism as a whole it makes a lot of sence in some ways. I just don't think it should ever impead somebodys freedom constitutionally. At least that's my take.
 

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Night Wolf said:
BTW did you know Ford has been making flexfuel (E-85) vehicles since the 90's.... all the Taurus' and Rangers with the leaf badge on the back are FFV, and most owners don't even know it.
Yeah, cause the current ethanol is SUCH a good fuel...
 

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Correct Hybrids are a stop gap until somebody comes up with something better. Hydrogen fuel cells are NOT a viable technology. NOT NOW and NOT ANYTIME SOON. Maybe 30 years away at best. What fuel cells are is smoke and mirrors. Look what we are doing with this hand no not that hand this one.
Big American companies are not about innovation. Why because R+D costs money so the stock market hates it. That's why they let the little guys do the R+D and then buy their companies if it works out. Buying proven technology looks good to the folks on Wall Street. The most important points made in the movie "Who killed the electric car" are the oil companies are against anything that cuts into their profit margin and that the EV1 was very maintanece free. Read that as cutting into dealer profits and parts sales. Dealers make their money by fixing overly complicated cars not by selling them! This was presented to the politicians as lost jobs. The good thing about the high price of fuel is that it will force car companies to make fuel efficient cars because nothing else is selling.
 

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Hey if you don't like Hybrids or fuel costs then buy this. http://www.teslamotors.com/

Faster than 90% of the cars on the road too.
 
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