Isuzu SUV Forum banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Designers of the Isuzu Troopers could have a great run maybe even as good as the Jeep CHEROKEE or the Toyota 4-Runner if they would not have made two big mistakes.

1. They should of used the 4l60E transmission and not the undersized 4L30e. What where they thinking this is a lite car transmission.
2. They should of used a timing chain and not that timing belt that breaks or the automatic adjuster. Even Toyota quit using these on their cars because customers hate them when a $25 part breaks and causes thousands of dollars in repairs.

The above two reasons is why Troopers are no loner sold in the USA and why they have a very low resale value.

PS I have had two of them and do not plan on selling my second one. Other than the two things list above it is a great SUV. However for most people this was a real deal killer that caused sales to crash and burn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,073 Posts
I agree on the transmission, not so much on the timing belt. The Trooper engines are not interference designs so a broken timing belt will not damage the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
2.8 (4JB1), 3.1 (4JG2) diesels and 3.2 V6 (6VD1) petrol engines are all interferance ;)

Only saving grace is the 2.8 (4JB1) and 3.1 (4JG2) diesels have pushrods which absorb the damage most of the time saving your piston tops and valves ... can still make a mess though.

I thought the 2.6 Petrol was interferance as well but could be wrong on that one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
346 Posts
Had this conversation with Jerry just yesterday. The reason we got the 4l30 instead of continuing the aw30-80 was all about accounting. The asian would have cost them an additional 35 dollars per unit.

I disagree with you about the belts rather than chains but may just be personal preference. If you service these engines as described by the manufacturer and use quality parts there are few failures.

My first gen trooper would be amazing with the 4.3 and an aw30-80. But GM would not sell Isuzu the engines. If they had they would have worked themselves out of a job. Because then the slow little japenese truck would have pulled with and outperformed the chevy crap during the time period of the late 80's.

Just my little rant against GM.

Billy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,073 Posts
Rhanagar said:
2.8 (4JB1), 3.1 (4JG2) diesels and 3.2 V6 (6VD1) petrol engines are all interferance ;)

Only saving grace is the 2.8 (4JB1) and 3.1 (4JG2) diesels have pushrods which absorb the damage most of the time saving your piston tops and valves ... can still make a mess though.

I thought the 2.6 Petrol was interferance as well but could be wrong on that one.
According to Planet wiki and Jerry Lemond, the 3.2 and 3.5L V6s are not interference, except for the direct injection motor.The diesels could be interference, don't know much about them here in the US. I apologize for not being more specific in my statement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,196 Posts
undervalued? dude I canty find a decent 2nd gen trooper for less than 2500 arround here :shock: and first gen troopers are become rare around here, I cant find one for sale!!
anyways if the first gen trooper would came with the 3.2 i think they would of been more popular...and if the second gen would of came out with the V8 isuzu had in mind...then it would of been a complete different story!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
What about the oil consumption issues with the 3.5 & 3.2? This seems like a major oversight. Having to check your oil at ever gas fill up?? Really? My old 1999 4runner Limited Supercharged w/ 160k (original motor & trans) used zero oil, ever. You could run 3-4k miles and it was exactly at the full line. Plus : Non interference engine. Coil over suspension. Factory elocker. Rack & pinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
BigSwede said:
Rhanagar said:
2.8 (4JB1), 3.1 (4JG2) diesels and 3.2 V6 (6VD1) petrol engines are all interferance ;)

Only saving grace is the 2.8 (4JB1) and 3.1 (4JG2) diesels have pushrods which absorb the damage most of the time saving your piston tops and valves ... can still make a mess though.

I thought the 2.6 Petrol was interferance as well but could be wrong on that one.
According to Planet wiki and Jerry Lemond, the 3.2 and 3.5L V6s are not interference, except for the direct injection motor.The diesels could be interference, don't know much about them here in the US. I apologize for not being more specific in my statement.
Not having a go at all buddy. The reason I quoted the engine model numbers was to help clear things. We never had any of the V6 petrol versions on our Mk.I (Trooper II) Troopers either so they are a mystery to me as well :D

Real confusion is they made the following for Troopers:

Diesel-
2.3
2.8
3.1
3.0

Petrol-
2.0
2.2
2.3
2.6
2.8
3.1
3.2 SOHC
3.2 DOHC
3.5

Also on top of that were the region specific. For example most 2.8 TDi (4JB1) engines were belt driven .... however in dustier and drier climates they even produced a gear driven version :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,073 Posts
Rhanagar said:
3.2 SOHC
3.2 DOHC
And technically, there are two different 3.2L DOHC motors,,,92-95 and 98+ :)
(though the 98+ 3.2L was not used in US in Troopers, it came with the 3.5L. 98+ Rodeos/Amigos had the 3.2L.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,560 Posts
I'd like to comment on a couple of things here. 1st sales of the 1st gen Troopers were huge. Same with Pups. They were very popular when they were new. Especially considering it was a new model for what was then a new company in the American market. Around 1990 there were more Troopers than any other single truck except F150s in our company parking lot were I worked. Almost every owner bought another Isuzu product. Everybody knew who Joe Isuzu was! One of the most successful ad campaigns ever next to marketing the VW bug. Take a look around you. There are still Zoo's everywhere. The parking lot at work still has lot's of Rodeos and Troopers. They've been out of business for almost 10 years now in reality!

I Personally did a lot of research in 2004 before I sold my 2000 Trooper. I believe it was sales and not lack of sales that killed Isuzu. In the late '90s Isuzu owned the SUV market. That's all the sold! Isuzu was hurting after the Asian stock market crash like all the other Japanese car companies. They borrowed Huge sums of money from GM. At that time GM was major stock holder in Isuzu. There was quite a bit of hoopla over how Isuzu was going to "concentrate" on it's core business. Medium Duty Trucks. That and the new release of the D max in Asia which was a run away success. Remember back then the Japanese car companies were puting a real hurting on domestic truck and SUV sales and that why tariffs were put into place. Hence the Trooper II to beat tariffs. Same for the welded in back seat in Suby brats. Every thing I read convinced me that the loan contract with GM forced them to stop selling SUVs in north America. GM said sure we will loan you the money but you will have to get out of our SUV market. Your market share is killing blazer sales. Isuzu signed the contract and within weeks the Trooper was replaced with the ***-ender. 2 other new models and a new engine also gone. GM killed Isuzu in North America. Not transmissions. Of course the Trannies might have been a GM plot as well!

There is nothing wrong with a timing belt. They are much more efficient in small engines than chains. As said above just like anything else. Follow the maintenance schedule and you'll be fine. I have never personally seen a broken timing belt on a properly maintained vehicle. I have seen a lot of stretched and broken timing chains and broken timing gears.

Also look at styling. I had a 1st gen when the second gens came out in '92. The styling was light years ahead of everything else on the market. An aerodynamic truck OMG! Same effect on the market as the sleek new Audi 5000 in the early eighties (the Ford Taurus was made as a near copy). The rest of the industry was scrambling to catch up. The VX detsroyed any chance of that the style was so far ahead when It came out.

If little girly men bought manuals instead of problematic or Auto-magic transmissions that would be a none issue! I will grant that oil burning and Transmission hurt owner satisfaction and loyalty. I was one of those customers (oil burning). I had bought my 2000 to replace a lemon and that issue didn't go over well with me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,936 Posts
IMO, if the value of these vehicles seems low, it is only because Isuzu has fallen off the map. Isuzu is almost an obscurity now, so people will be less likely to buy a vehicle if they don't even know of an authorized dealer in their neighborhood.

The average person doesn't know jack about what makes a good tranny or whether a timing chain is better than a belt. IMO, none of that has anything to do with why Isuzu "failed" as a brand. It has more to do with bad marketing, and most likely a botched up relationship with GM.

People eat what you feed them, and they were fed more Hondas and Toyotas and Nissans, and most of all, Jeeps.

Bart
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,672 Posts
But you have to admit honda and toyota were/are better vehicles. I've had several honda's with absolutely NO breakdowns what so ever, even my civic with 327,000 miles all original got me across country for only 68 bucks in gas.

I couldn't agree with you more about the 4l30E trannies. Isuzu let GM take them for a ride with that one. The asin was a better trans. I could pick apart the first gen troopers to no end, I've had to retro fit and upgrade mine to no end to get it to drive as good as a cherokee or a second gen isuzu.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,936 Posts
caveman said:
But you have to admit honda and toyota were/are better vehicles. I've had several honda's with absolutely NO breakdowns what so ever, even my civic with 327,000 miles all original got me across country for only 68 bucks in gas.
Well, I've never owned either, but I have owned/driven several Nissans and they were all good. I've been in Nissans and Isuzus my whole life.

Bart
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
the 3.1 comes in both timing belt, or gears, depending on country.....

i would have to say a major mistake was the lack of a solid front axle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I would like to have been a fly on the wall when Isuzu quality guys tried to solve the transmission problem. The Isuzu factory guys where most likley saying come on GM we supply you with the Durmax engine which is a Isuzu diesel, we supply you with the diesel in your NPR work truck, surely you can give us the 4l60e. They may have even asked for the 4.3L vortex V6. My guess is if Isuzu had the 4L60e and the 4.3L V6 it would have out sold and out lasted the GM's S-10 Blazer and GMC Jimmy line. I would bet that GM owning 40% of Isuzu only wanted their Diesel engines and made sure the Trooper line would have quality problems with the 4l30e so that it would not take market share away from their S10 line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,536 Posts
my 2010 Tacoma 2.7L and wifeys 2011 Corolla S both have timing chains now and im getting 22mpg around town in the truck and 31 range on highway trips...0w20 weight oil has helped fuel economy. The corolla is still breaking in at 3500 miles on the clock, and getting 35 on short highway runs....anyway back on Isuzus. ive had 50+ of these trucks, mostly wrecked or rotted for parts to save another or custom build another...anyway, most have 100k on them, i had a 84longbed pup with 300k on it, clutch and carb was rebuilt, that was it....again, rotted away so it was a shame. emission standards also killed the trucks as they added more and more to the engine to lower emissions. my 84 you could fix with a 10mm a philips screwdriver and a rock. verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry basic transportation, like the old civics and accords of the 80s/90s....had an accord with 598k on it too....(rotted subframe and a arm broke off). timing belt on the accord, chain on the pup. its about maintenance. the 4L30E is a JOKE. even my moms S10 Blazer has a 4L60E under it and has the typical GM thump into gear @70k....it will out last the truck. Motor (4.3L) has already had lifters and intake gasket done, 2 alternators, 3 batteries and 3 tune ups (cap rotor wires plugs)...ive seen Rodeos and Troopers go 150k without ANYTHING but oil changes and run better. GM, ive had personal issues with and had to threaten a lawsuit to get my truck fixed properly so i honestly can say GM SUCKS and know how their customer service works...they try wearing you down, but the never met a stubborn German like myself. Ron 1 GM 0...... and the trans is one reason i wont buy an automatic Rodeo, VX, Axiom or Trooper. I also buy these trucks cheap because of that same transmission as it fails, the value tanks. just my .02

Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,076 Posts
GM would have sold them anything at any time. Or they could have gone and bought an engine and transmission elsewhere. The simple factor is cost. Like someone said above, saving money by using the 4L30 versus the Aisin or 4L60 was the aim. Same with using the 2.8L and 3.1L GM engine. They are much cheaper than the 4.3L they are also smaller and lighter and better on gas which was and still is one of the biggest selling points of any SUV. The 2.8L makes 135hp and was probably rated near 20MPG. But I have owned a 4.3L of the same era with the same EFI system and it was a challenge getting 16MPG and that engine only made 160 horsepower. So marketing obviously saw that a nearly 4MPG difference plus a significant cost savings was a no brainer.

GM sold plenty of motors to Jeep and AMC over the years They sold tons of Detroit diesels that went into millions medium and heavy trucks that were direct competitors in the marketplace.

Also for future reference Isuzu itself never made or supplied the Duramax 6.6L. Isuzu was consulted on the engineering and GM powertrain was in charge of the powertrain control. All Duramax engines are made in Ohio. DMAX did begin as a joint venture between Isuzu and GM it was a majority Isuzu company but now it is all GM. This same plant has been making GM's diesels since the 6.2L
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top