[Trooperz2.6]

I just changed the timing belt on our 88 Trooper 4 banger. Now when I placed the new belt on and tried to start it, it sounds like the starter is just spining, although the belts etc are turning. Lack of compression? Could this be maybe that I have placed the belt on one or two teeth too far retarded? Or could it be something more sinister? I really need help here guys. The snow season is coming and we need our 4WD back on the road. If anyone has any ideas that they can post on here please do and if it needs a conversation please pm me with a phone # and I will be more than happy to call you. I am totally desperate here and nobody in this 21,000 population town has a clue.

Cris

 

[Neonguy95]

Check compression. That will tell you if you would be able to start.

Does it turn over really easy? Or does it sound like it is trying to start? Do you have spark? Do you have fuel? Lots of varibles. Double check everything 3 times.

 

[Trooperz2.6]

There is compression and a spark and fuel. It sounds like the starter is spinning but not the motor. BUT the motor IS turning over. Is it possible that I have maybe missed the timing by a tooth or two?

 

[Neonguy95]

It would have to be off by more than a tooth or two, but yes timing could cause it.

 

[Trooperz2.6]

ok I'll try to get to it this afternoon and see if that's it. Also, The bottom pulley (harmonic balancer) has a distinct wobble to it. Only half or quarter of it sits on the crank shaft. This is the reason I had to do all this in the first place. I thought changing everything would cure it but it hasn't. Any ideas as to what I could do? There is a spacer which sits behind the pulley and in front of the timing belt pulley, but if I remove said spacer the crank pulley just wobbles like there's no tomorrow. I'm so confused. LOL

Cris

 

[Neonguy95]

Wobbles? How bad? In and out wobble or like it isn't on straight? The pulley and or the shaft should not wobble, not even slightly.

 

[Trooperz2.6]

The wobble is as if its loose, yet you can't budge it with your hand, even without the belst on but I'm guessing that when it's turning over it's just a little stronger pull than I can manage. :lol:
When you watch it. It's like it's about to fall off but it never does. It used to do this which is why the woodruff key was mashed, hence the whole replacement job on it. I am at a complete loss now.

Cris

 

[Neonguy95]

Have you tried replacing the pulley? This cannot be good on crank bearings.

 

[Trooperz2.6]

Yep it is a new pulley on there now, and a new timing belt loower pulley and it still isn't sitting right.

 

[LTC Don]

Yep it is a new pulley on there now, and a new timing belt loower pulley and it still isn't sitting right.

OK, so, as I understand reading this, you've installed a new crank pulley. I'm not real familiar with the setup on the 2.6s.

Is the new pulley installed and torque is to spec?

The spec for the c-shaft pulley bolt, according to Helm is 86.7 ft lbs (that really doesn't sound that tight), so an even 90 is a good target. If the torque is less than the specced 86, then obviously some more elbow grease is in order. I found on my 2.8 that it took a lot of effort turning the bolt to 'push' the pulley back onto the key to where it would finally seat flush with the shaft, then I could torque it down to spec.

Do you have a Helm manual or are you using one of the other manuals - Haynes or Chilton?

For the DIY jobs on these trucks, the Helm manual is absolutely indespensible as the other books cover too many years and are really only good for the additional pics.

Sorry for the difficulties, good luck.

Cheers,

 

[Adam]

Hi,
My memory is a rusty on the way stuff goes together on the bottom end. I've had it all off enough, you'd think i'd remember. Must be old age. :lol:

Anyway, I am wondering if you have the pulley mis-alinged. There should be a key in the crank for both the large crank pulley, and the smaller one behind it that the timing belt rides on. If you don't have the pulleys pushed down all the way, so that they are gripping the keys, it might cause the problem you are talking about. It can be diffuclut to get these pulley's on and off, so that might worth checking.

Adam

 

[Trooperz2.6]

ok. So I am using Haynes and it is torqued to spec. The problem being that yes it is mis-aligned. The problem with this is that if I remove the spacer, the crank pulley is loose. If I leave the spacer there, the crank pulley is too far forward. It's driving me insane. LOL. The spacer doesn't seem to want to sit inside the cam belt pulley, hence it sits too far forward. Is it safe to shave a little from the diameter of the spacer?

Cris

 

[wrenchmonster]

Hello. If the pulley is not seating properly I would make the same suggestion as someone else posted in that perhaps it needs a little more persuation to lye flat. Just remember to back it off and re-torque at the proper ft/lbs. Also, if you can't start the motor, and have compression and spark and fuel, I would first check the static timing, that is, the timing between the crank and cam(s). There should be clear marks here. If these are correct you should get good compression. With that okay, I would next look at the CKP/CMP (crankshaft/camshaft position sensor) these are the units typically responsible for making sure the fuel and spark are delivered to the correct cylinder at the correct time. Check both the sensors themselves and to make sure they are install properly with the correct air gap and/or position. If all the above is okay, your motor should start. Good luck.

-Kevin

 

[Trooperz2.6]

ok. Well I am going to be back at it again this weekend. I have to get it done soon as it's getting cold around here now. LOL
Sounds like great advice from all of you. I will get back to you as to how it goes.
Cris

Kevin. If you are ever on the Eastern side of WA, let me know. Always good to meet new people.

 

[Trooperz2.6]

ok I desperately need help now. I have set and reset the static timing three times now and each time I do it and try to start the car, I get the no compression sound again. When I re-check the static timing, it's 180 degrees out. What is going on here? Can any of you help??? I am at the point where I want to shoot the car.

Cris

 

[wrenchmonster]

Howdy. First of all, hopefully there was no crashing of the valves prior to this. If you have bent valves your F&*%$D, and you have to take the head off again.

Asuming the head and valves are okay, I think the problem might be that you are simply on the wrong stroke. Remember, there are 2 upstrokes and 2 downstrokes. I would make sure you are on the compression stroke No1 cylinder and not the exhaust stroke. You can tell by checking the No1 cylinders mated pair.

Take your plugs out, take your valve cover off and watch the valves over the No1 cylinder. They should be closed when No1 is coming up on the compression stroke. Put a compression gauge on No1 so you can watch this and make sure you are getting compression when the valves on No1 are closed and the piston is coming UP. I would turn the engine over by hand and not use your starter until you can see that you can make compression on your cylinders. That starter is alot stronger than you.

-Kevin

 

[Trooperz2.6]

ok that ebing said. I will have to carry on tomorrow as I don't want to leave the engine exposed over night. Is that likely to make the top timing pulley 180 degrees out after a few turns? I am a little slow with OHC engines as I prefer OHV but you can't get the performance parts for a MK1 Escort in the states. LOL

Cris

 

[wrenchmonster]

Howdy. Distance repair is so difficult. To answer your question, the Camshaft moves at 1/2 of the Crankshaft speed. This is why the camshaft timing gear is larger than the crankshaft timing gear. So, one could say that for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft, the camshaft must turn once. Sometimes you'll be 1 tooth off, and yes, being 1 tooth off can cause a no compression issue. However, keep in mind this ratio before condeming your work as being 180 degrees off. If you want to make sure your piston is coming up, use a plastic straw and put it in the spark plug hole, watch for the straw to come up (don't use a pencil or anything else that could break off inside). This engine does have a good head gasket, right?

Here's a review and what to look for on the valves, (simplified explanation):

Intake stroke. Piston coming down, intake valve open, exhaust valve closed, drawing in fuel and air via a vacuum in the cylinder.

Compression stroke. Piston coming up, both intake and exhaust valve closed, fuel and air being compressed in the cylinder.

Power stroke. Fuel and air compressed, spark plug fires, causes fuel and air to ignite and forces down the piston. Intake and exhaust valves closed.

Exhaust stroke. Intake valve closed, exhaust valve open. As piston travels up the exhaust gases are forced out the exhaust valve.

Then piston travels down and the whole cycle starts over again. Hope this helps. Just remember, camshaft turns once for every 2 revolutions of the crank.

-Kevin

 

[Trooperz2.6]

ok, So I get everything back together and turn it over and guess what happens?
The bottom pulley turns and so does the top to a point. Then the top pulley stops and the bottom one continues to turn. WTF is going on??? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cris

 

[¡Oracle!]

:shock: did you turn that by hand or with the starter?