[ruggman]

First I should explain that I am having problems with a 1999 Honda Passport NOT an Isuzu. But from what I can find the Passport and Rodeo use pretty much the same engines.

I am hoping someone has seen a similar problem and can point me in the right direction.

Ok, so here is the story...I got the 1999 Honda Passport and knew it had bent valves and a cracked head...I just planned on putting in a new engine and be done with it...the new engine was installed and I have yet to get the 2,4,6 (passenger side) cylinders to fire. The 1,3,5 (driver's side) cylinders fire fine. The engine has good compression and the fuel pressure looks good.

I have installed a new timing belt and followed the instructions in the Hayes manual I have for Isuzu. The timing still seems to be off OR my problem lies somewhere else altogether. I have read in a few online forums that the engine being used is notorious for being difficult to set correct timing on. I have had a couple people (all with a good number of tech experience under the belt) look at the engine and nobody can figure out what the problem is. The only thing I have NOT done is take it into a Honda shop.

I am almost certain the issue is the timing since I have seen so many posts with the exact same problem with this make and model. BUT, I did read a post where a tech guy was saying the original instructions were missing information when it came to setting the timing and now they have bulletin updates for the missing data. I am hoping someone may know what was missing and be able to point me to where I can find 100% working instruction for setting the timing.

It's drivable...just only runs on 3 cylinders :-(

Please post if you have any information on this issue...especially if you have a step-by-step or solid instructions.

Thanks!
:?:

 

[Gizmo42]

The manual is wrong. Check out Jerry Lemonds post in this thread for info on how to do it the right way.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=7674

Oh yeah, a Honda Passport IS an Isuzu Rodeo, just rebadged.

 

[Buster28]

Cylinders 2, 4 & 6 are on the driver side of your engine. #6 is under the brake booster. The engine is timed with #2 at TDC.

 

[vanduker]

The manual is wrong. Check out Jerry Lemonds post in this thread for info on how to do it the right way.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=7674

Oh yeah, a Honda Passport IS an Isuzu Rodeo, just rebadged.

Agree on all counts except I'd wonder if the old engine ever had bent valves or a cracked head as both are uncommon events with these motors - they are non interference.

 

[CatFuzz]

Agree, agree, agree. In that order. Some shops will use the broken timing belt excuse to bilk you out of a chunk of money. PO probably towed it home and parked it rather than pay what they wanted not thinking they were lying.

Anyway, Haynes is wrong on setting the timing on these engine and your Passport is 100% identical to a Rodeo of the same year. Just different labels.

 

[CatFuzz]

In case Jerry's instructions aren't clear to you:

Remove the belt, reset your tensioner. Line up the crank on its mark on the oil pump housing. Turn the passenger side cam several turns until it clicks into place on the timing mark pointing up. P.side is now correct. Now the d.side, this is the unusual part......There are TWO marks on the drivers side. One that points up, in the same relative place as the passenger side mark and a second one that is 45 degrees to the left, facing the front of the engine. Turn the cam sprocket until it clicks into place lining up with the second mark. Then, turn the sprocket to the right 45 degrees and line it up with the top mark and install the belt. It might not want to stay there and it may take several revolutions to get the cams where they need to be. There should be some marks on your new timing belt to help you install it properly onto the marks. Install tensioner, pull pin, yada, yada......now observe how awesome your engine runs on all six holes.

 

[Gizmo42]

Agree on all counts except I'd wonder if the old engine ever had bent valves or a cracked head as both are uncommon events with these motors - they are non interference.

Yeah I wonder about the bent valves too, but there were some bad heads in early 2nd gen rodeos (mostly '98, some '99) that would crack. Easy to tell though because the way they crack your spark plug tubes will fill with coolant.

 

[ruggman]

Thanks to all who have replied. It will be about a week before I can work on the vehicle. I will post my results when/after I tackle this project again.

Again, Thank You.

 

[Dae]

Watch the videos on this page. It has ALL the information that you need.
http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=16972

Drivers side is timed differently, and need to be exact or it will run like crap cause its not timed.
And that is a 100% Isuzu besides the badges. There is no such thing as a Honda Passport, that is not an Isuzu.

 

[ruggman]

Ok. So I didn't have to time to get to this project as soon as I would have liked, but everything is now set according to the instructions given and the videos (thanks for all the info).

The vehicle started right up, but it seems as though the timing is still off. I believe all cylinders are firing. It sounds real rough. I ran the engine for a short period and turned the vehicle off thinking I could unplug the 3 wires that fire the spark plugs on the passenger side to make sure those cylinders are indeed firing. I loosened the connections and went to start the engine, but it would not start again (even after solidly connecting the wires back). I think it may have been flooded????

Anyway...I am thinking of turning the crankshaft 180 degrees to see if maybe the valves were up when it should have been down....not really sure if that will do anything or not but it sounds really rough and shakes like it's not 100% in time.

Thanks for all the advice and help. Thought I would post where everything at is at right now. Had to reposition one of the passenger side cams to get everything aligned - long story...they were tinkered with before I started trying to fix it :-( :evil: So I hope that is not what is causing the issue.

I should have time tomorrow or Friday to tinker again. Will post results. It's personal now!!!!

 

[ruggman]

:?: :?: :?:
Ok, things are not working right and I need advice.

After setting the timing by aligning the cams and following all the instructions posted (THANKS EVERYBODY!!!) the right side cylinders DID start to fire, but the engine was still out of time (really puttering, loud and shaking).

I have pulled everything off and left the timing belt ON. I removed the spark plugs and manually turned the crankshaft until the belt marks lined up (which took FOREVER ).

SO, now that the timing belt marks are back to being all lined up (like they were when I did everything the 1st time) I removed the right side valve cover to see if the gears/dots were positioned correctly. THEY ARE NOT. They are way off.

Is that ok? It seems I remember that after you set the timing, and run the engine, if you take the valve cover off and look at the dot alignment it will not be aligned.

Here is a wrench I have to throw in there now. When I first got the vehicle it ran REALLY rough. I took it to a mechanic and he said the valves were bent and advised me to get a new engine. He said he could get one for $1900, but I found the current engine I have now online for $1,100 and had it shipped to his shop. When he installed the replacement engine he could not get the right side cylinders to fire, but he was going by a Hayes manual I bought. He mentioned something about tinkering with the cams. I am not sure if he did reposition the cams or not, but when I removed the valve covers for the first time the lower camshaft on the right side (passenger) had markings on it like it was removed and repositioned.

I towed the vehicle home from his shop after sinking $2,000 (labor fees and other parts) into it and still not working. I figured I would either tinker with it myself or sell for scrap or to someone who wanted it.

That brings me to where I am now. I figure the issue does relate to timing after researching a little. And after I took everything apart and got the right cylinders firing after following all the instructions/videos posted here I feel I am heading in the right direction.

So, back to the lower camshaft on the right side...I turned the camshaft a zillion times and could not get the dots to line up (seriously like 45 minutes of just turning them). The left side aligned fine. So since the lower camshaft had the markings on it and noticing marks on the bolts holding the camshaft in place I felt they had been repositioned incorrectly. I aligned the dots on the upper camshaft to where they should be and then repositioned the lower camshaft so it was aligned properly. The dots WERE really close before doing so BUT NOT aligned. I had to turn the camshaft 2 or 3 teeth COUNTERCLOCKWISE to get everything aligned according to the directions. Everything was then aligned and looked good, but as I stated in the beginning...the right side fired but the engine did not run good.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[angel.sanchez]

Just a question. Is your engine SOHC od DOHC???

 

[Buster28]

If the dots on the camshaft gears and the dot on the camshaft drive gear are not aligned or will not stay aligned the gear securing pin on one or both camshafts is sheared off. This allows the gear to slip on the camshaft, needless to say it will not run properly if the camshafts will not stay in mechanical alignment with each other or the belt drive sprocket.

 

[ruggman]

@Buster28. Thanks, I will look into that. I am assuming you can replace the securing pin if missing...not sure where it is or what it looks like...will do some searching.

@angel.sanchez...the engine is DOHC.

 

[Buster28]

The pin is not service item but you can make a suitable replacement from the correct size drill bit.

 

[ruggman]

Hip-Hip-Hooray!!!

I think everything is working correctly. I had to replace the retaining pin on the right side intake camshaft. Once the camshaft was fixed I reset the timing marks and put everything back together ( for the most part) and she sounds good. I have not done a test drive since I need to get some antifreeze, but I think I'm finally finished.

Here is a link to a video posted by a guy who had the same problem (gives credit to Jerry Lemond)

Thank everybody! I will post how things are going after test drive.

 

[CatFuzz]

Cool. :mrgreen:

 

[ruggman]

I guess I was wrong. I thought everything was working properly, but it turns out the right bank(passenger side) still is not firing. I got some antifreeze today and was going to test drive the vehicle, but I pulled the spark plug wires off while the vehicle was running and nothing changed...so it seems the right side (passenger side) is still NOT firing.

I know for sure the timing marks on the right side are aligned properly and the timing belt is aligned properly. The first time I tried the whole timing thing the left side cams seemed fine. All retaining pins are fine now for all cams on the right side.

Is it possibly that some codes need to be cleared to get the right side firing?

If the left bank is not timed would that cause the right side to NOT fire? I ask because removing everything is a hassle and I would like to avoid it if possible.

I am not a mechanic. I know a little and am good at following directions but that is it. Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the right cylinders to not fire if the timing seems good?

 

[Buster28]

Run a compression test, if one bank is very low the cam timing is incorrect. Could be another sheared pin or the initial setup was wrong. Clearing codes is not a requirement for proper operation, they will clear automatically when the defect is corrected.

 

[ruggman]

Still trying to get this thing to run.

Since my last message I have taking EVERYTHING apart and set the cams on BOTH sides and aligned the timing belt 100%. I know for sure everything (cam dots to timing marks) were aligned 100%, but the engine still idles super rough and shakes something fierce. When I rev the engine up to higher RPMS it seems to smooth out. Unfortunately, I am not sure if the right bank fires or not.

I did not take it out for a spin (wish I had). I have everything pulled apart again and the timing mark (dots on cams) are lined up perfectly where they should be. The left bank (drivers side) is now at 9 o'clock and the cam dots are lined up.

Is there something I can be missing? Cam sensor or other sensor? I am at a loss now that I have checked and double checked everything.

Thanks, Paul.