I did the whole sea foam in the oil, oil change this weekend . I used fully syn. Mobil1 5w 40 and I was wandering if you guyts think I should go with the 10w 40 next time. The reason I ask is bc I have this tick when I first start the trooper up, it goes away in just a few, but I did not have such a problem with it when I was using dino oil 10w 40 before I did the sea foam job. Any and all comments welcome, what should I add,or change to reduce or remove the noise? Thanks guy JOE> :?:
oil change ?
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Unless you have over 200,000 miles, and/or drive exclusively in Death Valley, 40 weight is really not helping your motor. At startup, it might even be doing more harm than good.
My 3.5 L has 200,000+ miles. Ive used 0-30 Mobil 1 nearly all its life. I had tick also. Recently tried 5w-20 (yes, even summer driving) Good oil pressure readings even hot, and actually made my motor tick-free. Actually even quieter than ever before. I have to admit I was surprised.
I grew up on 10w-40 like many old timers. Then again, the bearing clearances were so much greater than today. My 1971 MGB had plastigage readings of like 1/4" clearnace rod/crank journals I swear! OK, maybe Im exaggerating, you motorheads get the idea. loose, loose, loose.
Incidentally, the CAT earthmovers near my house use straight 10w. Machines with tires literally 7' diameter. Not exactly high-rev japanese techno-motors !
My 3.5 L has 200,000+ miles. Ive used 0-30 Mobil 1 nearly all its life. I had tick also. Recently tried 5w-20 (yes, even summer driving) Good oil pressure readings even hot, and actually made my motor tick-free. Actually even quieter than ever before. I have to admit I was surprised.
I grew up on 10w-40 like many old timers. Then again, the bearing clearances were so much greater than today. My 1971 MGB had plastigage readings of like 1/4" clearnace rod/crank journals I swear! OK, maybe Im exaggerating, you motorheads get the idea. loose, loose, loose.
Incidentally, the CAT earthmovers near my house use straight 10w. Machines with tires literally 7' diameter. Not exactly high-rev japanese techno-motors !
Well it is the "truck and suv" type Mobil 1 so I figured that being as I live here in the south and the temps stay warm most of the time that the 5w40 would be fine, I really like the way it has ran since the Sea Foam/switch to synthetic job. I am a synthetic man for life now. Thanks guys JOE>
The whole "truck and SUV" oil thing is the biggest joke going. Actually, I take that back, its pure markesting genius.sloppyjoe said:
So, my SUV has the same motor as my car, both weight nearly the same, both driven the same. I should use SUV oil 'cause its super tough for super tough SUV's. Oh please, gimme a break.
As for oil viscosity VS air temp.... You gotta realize that that oil ciculating in your engine is like 200 degrees. Living in the south (90 degrees) VS up north (70 degrees) aint gonna make a blip on the radar screen as far as oil temps are concerned.
The only difference in North/South is startup temp. ... and then only in very cold temps (as in below 30 degrees)
the biggest jokes going, are snake oils, addatives and fuel system cleaners that do nothing or make things worse. Mobil 1 T&SUV, isn't a joke, it's excellent oil.
allow me to explain.
engines that work hard, are harder on oil. Engines in SUVs, continuasly find themselves under more load than engines in cars.. reasons= driveline inneficiancies (4WD, long drive shafts, transfer cases), more weight, and more wind drag, more rolling resistance.
You will find, that there are spacific oils made, for use in engines that are used harder. They are called HDEOs (heavy duty engine oils). Mobil makes an oil called Delvac 1300, (a dino HDEO), and a product called Delvac 1. (Also, an HDEO, synthetic). Chevron makes delo 400 and a few others, Rotella has a selection of HDEOs, and there are several other oils on the market specifically designed with hard working engines in mind. The main thing different about these oils, is the add-pack.. They contain significantly higher levels of oxidation fighting components, and cleansers, to clean up after itself, than regular oils do, which is important in an engine that routinally abuses it's oils. You'll find some variation of an HDEO in any big diesel rig out there. In over the road applications, these heavy duty oils often last 50-100 thousand miles before changes.
It has been found, that some regular gasoline engines, benifit from the use of an HDEO... Many folks use diesel oils, in thier cars, and get excellent results. (low wear numbers, and long oil runs, as reported by used oil analysis)..
Mobil came along, and decided to market an HDEO, for use in SUVs. Which is an excellent idea, considering that most SUVs, respond very well to a good HDEO like delvac 1.
oh.. and here's the clincher... Mobil T&SUV, IS, Delvac 1.
they are the same product, in different bottles. Delvac 1 is easily one of the best synthetic oils on the planet when used in engines that need that extra detergency. And now you can buy it at walmart in a bottle that says "truck and SUV" on the front... how convenient.
SO- when mobil says- hey- use our delvac 1 in your diesel, they aren't joking around, it's not hype, and anybody who operates a fleet of diesels knows it's not hype.... because if you put regular ole oil in a diesel, you would choke up your engine with sludge.
When they say- put delvac(T&SUV) in your SUV too.. they are giving good advice.
Hey thanks for backing me up, but is there a place on the bottle or a place to find out about that specific info on the web ? I had already made my decision,but just wanted to post and see what other drivers thought. I love the way it runs with the truck and suv 5w40 in it. I mean even if you look in the manual it shows 5w30 for -5* to 100* and when it was printed there was no place on the chart for 5w40, it just had the 15w40. So if you think about it 5w40 is a dual wieght oil that just gets thinner to protact better at startup, like the 5w30, and protects the motor in temps higher than 100*. Thas just the way I see it, thanks for all the feed back keep it coming the more input the better the thred. JOE> :lol:mdocod said:
you guys have to be careful when picking a very large range oil, like a 5w 40. The reason that oil has such a range is because there are extra polymers added to it. Although the polymers help to get the extra range, after a while they will shear from the heat and pressure and become a hinderance. So if you guys dont need the large range then don't get it.
Just wandering if you would know how long or under what conditions that this sheering occurs? I mean the synthetic oils already last longer than the dino, but does this sheering you speek of happen within 5000 miles, or if you run the oil too long?hadji_85 said:
I dont know specifically. But the more VI Improvers you have, the more chances you have to shear these polymers. The longer you use it, the more likely the polymers will shear. I know that synthetic doesn't have as many VI improvers because they dont lose as much viscocity at high temps so they dont need as many VI improvers.
It is hard to figure out an exact number because it depends on the oil type, the oil brand, the oil weight, the engine, and the driving habits of a person. Perhaps you would have to test your oil after 5k miles to figure it out.
It is hard to figure out an exact number because it depends on the oil type, the oil brand, the oil weight, the engine, and the driving habits of a person. Perhaps you would have to test your oil after 5k miles to figure it out.
I just checked out the mobil1 website and you can do a check through the site it will help you choose the right oil.( they recommend the oil you should run.) That told me I should be running 10w30. Just something you guys can check out if you get a chance. Here it is. JOE>
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... x?option=2
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/Mot ... x?option=2
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What I would like to see is exactally what are the additive packages of
the different oils.
For example The Delvac 1. I know nothing about this oil. My assumption
though is that if this is for Diesel then it is more than just better and more
detergents. Below is my take on thing that I believe are facts. Opinions
are very welcome
Fact 1. No matter dino. synthetic. silicone, or some sort of secreat GOD
made lube. They will all squeeze out at the SAME pressure and leave
your bearings dry. Viscosity being the same of course. I am not talking
slickness here.
Fact 2. This is where the "solids" come into play that are part of the
additive package. After the liquids squeeze out the solids stay and
prevent galling and bearing damage.
Fact 3. Because these solids additives screw up emissions by coating
sensors and catalist new oils are actually getting WORSE. They are
requiring less be put it. Thus more damage can happen during high
load operations.
Fact 4. Heat affects viscosity more on dinos and cheep synthetics than
does High quality synthetics (Royal purple, Red line, ....). Red line
for example has very few viscosity improvers because it simply does not
need them. It also has very limited detergent additives.
This is then what leads me to believe why a Truck/ SUV oil is needed.
These oils have a MUCH higher content of solids additives. So when you
are hiking a 4K pound trailor up a hill you have something protecting
your engine.
This is also why I believe that oil additives that contain solid lubes like
moly are needed. Why they are hard to find I have no idea. Liquid
additives should be avoided at all costs.
the different oils.
For example The Delvac 1. I know nothing about this oil. My assumption
though is that if this is for Diesel then it is more than just better and more
detergents. Below is my take on thing that I believe are facts. Opinions
are very welcome
Fact 1. No matter dino. synthetic. silicone, or some sort of secreat GOD
made lube. They will all squeeze out at the SAME pressure and leave
your bearings dry. Viscosity being the same of course. I am not talking
slickness here.
Fact 2. This is where the "solids" come into play that are part of the
additive package. After the liquids squeeze out the solids stay and
prevent galling and bearing damage.
Fact 3. Because these solids additives screw up emissions by coating
sensors and catalist new oils are actually getting WORSE. They are
requiring less be put it. Thus more damage can happen during high
load operations.
Fact 4. Heat affects viscosity more on dinos and cheep synthetics than
does High quality synthetics (Royal purple, Red line, ....). Red line
for example has very few viscosity improvers because it simply does not
need them. It also has very limited detergent additives.
This is then what leads me to believe why a Truck/ SUV oil is needed.
These oils have a MUCH higher content of solids additives. So when you
are hiking a 4K pound trailor up a hill you have something protecting
your engine.
This is also why I believe that oil additives that contain solid lubes like
moly are needed. Why they are hard to find I have no idea. Liquid
additives should be avoided at all costs.
All these wacked-out, oil-analyzing, long-drain interval, synthetic polymer, razzle-frazzle guys crack me up.
We spend 60 bucks for a tank of gas every week.
Those oil-heads literally keep themselves up at night deciding whether to go 20,000 or 15,000 miles on an oil change (which cost them like a half-tank of gas) On top of that they send off their damn oil to be analyzed. Hello guys, you are driving a car, not a locomotive that takes 200 gallons of pricey oil.
Change the damn oil every 3 or 5k miles, use what the hundreds of Isuzu engineers determined is the best viscosity, and be done with it.
OK, maybe if you need to make your bearings last 500,000 miles, go ahead with your oil-obsessed lives.
You really gonna keep that car that long? You think the car is gonna keep you that long?
Lastly, go around to your neighbors. Find the guy with the most miles on his car (mine has 243,000) and ask about his oil changing obsessions. 9 times outta 10 they just stop on over at Jiffy Lube ever 3 months and be done with it.
Costs me (us) less than a tank of gas.
We spend 60 bucks for a tank of gas every week.
Those oil-heads literally keep themselves up at night deciding whether to go 20,000 or 15,000 miles on an oil change (which cost them like a half-tank of gas) On top of that they send off their damn oil to be analyzed. Hello guys, you are driving a car, not a locomotive that takes 200 gallons of pricey oil.
Change the damn oil every 3 or 5k miles, use what the hundreds of Isuzu engineers determined is the best viscosity, and be done with it.
OK, maybe if you need to make your bearings last 500,000 miles, go ahead with your oil-obsessed lives.
You really gonna keep that car that long? You think the car is gonna keep you that long?
Lastly, go around to your neighbors. Find the guy with the most miles on his car (mine has 243,000) and ask about his oil changing obsessions. 9 times outta 10 they just stop on over at Jiffy Lube ever 3 months and be done with it.
Costs me (us) less than a tank of gas.
hey pkgdave, join www.mwior.com i didn't know we were both in cincy.
I really think the 3k oil change is just to make money. People have done oil tests to figure out when oil breaks down, a good mobile one (non synthetic) works fine up to 7k miles.
My understanding is that the oil test is also good for figuring out if there is any potential engine damage. And after you do it once to see how long you can use your oil, i doubt you will ever have to do it again.
I really think the 3k oil change is just to make money. People have done oil tests to figure out when oil breaks down, a good mobile one (non synthetic) works fine up to 7k miles.
My understanding is that the oil test is also good for figuring out if there is any potential engine damage. And after you do it once to see how long you can use your oil, i doubt you will ever have to do it again.
99% of people will get by fine, doing exactly what you have said- to not worry about it and just change it... the rest of us(~1%) are just finding interest in an area that most people don't give a $%^& about. we'll have our fun trying to get 500,000 miles out of the car, we all gotta have interests and hobbies, lol... The fact that we are spending 60 bucks for a tank of gas, is all the more reason for us, to find an oil. at any price, that works really well for our particular engine... it's a small price to pay compared to the overall operating cost.
this isn't entirely true.. we talk about "film" strength of oils... the film strength is how much pressure is required to push the oil out from between 2 surfaces. Generally speaking, the film strength of any modern motor oil is above and beyond any situation a normal engine should encounter... but, for the record.. most dino oils "pressout" at around 500PSI, whereas a good synthetic holds up to around 3000PSI. A significant difference- but a difference that doesn't make a big difference for most engines.
true- for some oils.
if an oil, whether dino or synthetic, is rated 10W30... they will both be within the range of viscosity specified for a 10W30 accross the measuerd temps. Different oil manufactures choose different actual viscosities within the range allowed... (you might hear someone talk about a "thin 30, or a thick 30"... oils at opposite ends of the range for a 30 weight). A better way to state what you are saying- is to say, that the synthetic oil, stays thinner at lower temps(better flow) than it's dino counterparts, and suffers from less breakdown and shearing when exposed to very high tempuratres.
There seems to be a very large misconception about the way oil viscosity and tempurature corrilate... the number in front of the W is NOT defining the oil weight when cold... It should not be looked at the same way the latter number is looked at. The "W" rating.... mereley says that the oil falls within a particular viscosity at low temps. the LOWER the number, the thinner the oil is... however.. oil is ALWAYS much thicker at low temps, than it is at high temps. Oil thickness.. is measured in Centistokes- a measure of kinetic viscosity, (bigger numbers=thicker)... the following chart is the specifications for Mobil Delvac 1
Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40
SAE Grade 5W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 102
cSt @ 100ºC 14.8
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 151
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.35
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 12
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 226
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.854
As you can see... at 40 degrees celcius, the kinetic viscosity is 102 cST, that drops dramatically to 14.8 at 100C(close to operating temp of oils in most engines). When you get down into the below freezing range, most oils register a few thousand cST. Go cold enough, and the oil is so thick, it won't pump or poor... A good wide range synthetic, is usable down into the -40 to -50 degree range.
Havoline dino, and redline synthetics, contain ample amounts of moly. Both are great oils. If you want to beef up the moly content of any oil... "Valvoline Synthetic Oil Treatment" (VSOT) is an addative in a little silver bottle that contains a large amount of moly, a good complement to any low-moly oil.
"Mobil is offering a "no-risk performance warranty" to fleet operators using Delvac 1 in new engines, such as the Cummins N14, Caterpillar 3406, Detroit Diesel Series 60 or Mack E7. To qualify, the truck or tractor must log at least 100,000 miles a year with under 30 percent idling time. Its engine maintenance and fuel economy (at least 6.5 mpg) must be documented. Mobil's EM/PA II Oil Analysis Program must be used. Advance written approval from Mobil must be obtained for oil drain intervals beyond 60,000 miles and/or four times the OEM recommendation"
This stuff is pushing 60K+ miles per oil change in over the road trucks- and Mobil is providing a warrenty for lubrication related failure for these truckers- I doubt this particular wide range oil, is having any problems with it's add-pack not holding up.
Speaking of wide range oils.... the idea that these oils may not hold up well due to their VI improvers, is really being shot down latally... There are a large number of Used Oil Analysis's posted over on BITOG from users of 0w30, 0w40, and even 5w50 synthetic oils.. some people have gotten their best UOAs on these oils, there is no sign that these oils don't hold up as well as the more classic 10W-30.
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1,369 Posts
Quote:
Fact 1. No matter dino. synthetic. silicone, or some sort of secreat GOD
made lube. They will all squeeze out at the SAME pressure and leave
your bearings dry. Viscosity being the same of course. I am not talking
slickness here.
Quote:
this isn't entirely true.. we talk about "film" strength of oils... the film strength is how much pressure is required to push the oil out from between 2 surfaces. Generally speaking, the film strength of any modern motor oil is above and beyond any situation a normal engine should encounter... but, for the record.. most dino oils "pressout" at around 500PSI, whereas a good synthetic holds up to around 3000PSI. A significant difference- but a difference that doesn't make a big difference for most engines.
I was refering to straight base stock with NO additives therefore
no film strength. So what I stated is valid. All fluids of the same viscosity
will squeeze out at the same pressure weather water, oil, silicone.
Thank you for the Valvline reference.
Fact 1. No matter dino. synthetic. silicone, or some sort of secreat GOD
made lube. They will all squeeze out at the SAME pressure and leave
your bearings dry. Viscosity being the same of course. I am not talking
slickness here.
Quote:
this isn't entirely true.. we talk about "film" strength of oils... the film strength is how much pressure is required to push the oil out from between 2 surfaces. Generally speaking, the film strength of any modern motor oil is above and beyond any situation a normal engine should encounter... but, for the record.. most dino oils "pressout" at around 500PSI, whereas a good synthetic holds up to around 3000PSI. A significant difference- but a difference that doesn't make a big difference for most engines.
I was refering to straight base stock with NO additives therefore
no film strength. So what I stated is valid. All fluids of the same viscosity
will squeeze out at the same pressure weather water, oil, silicone.
Thank you for the Valvline reference.
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