Why don't you put the connector together, wrap a ziptie around the middle of it (in between the middle wires) to hold it together, and then verify continuity through the connection
Ignition/Spark bad connection in 93 4ZE1 Rodeo
I've got a no spark issue going on and I'm sure it's either the 4 pin flat connector at the distributor or the pigtail to the ignition coil. DTC 41. Both have the little retaining flap (coil) or wire ring (distributor) broken off and jerryrigging it with bent wire and zip ties has worked in the past but never great. Time to replace. Unfortunately I have yet to find a good distributor 4 pin flat connector either in new aftermarket or junkyard Isuzu. I've been through 4 ignition coil pigtails, the flap just keep snapping off.
Anyone know where to get a new 4 pin for the distributor I could use that has the right retaining mechanism? Also, I'm thinking of using a "wrong" ignition coil. The one in the Pu'p looks like the holes are the same distance apart so itd fit in the bracket on the valve cover and be grounded, looks like it only differs in using a pigtail I recognize as a windshield wiper fluid pump pigtail for most makes, which would be nice because it seems less prone to breaking and slipping off, beefier contacts. But I'm also curious if a "high performance" or "racing" universal ignition coil with studs and nuts for the two input wires eliminating a pigtail altogether and a single spark plug style female wire terminal like a PerTronix flame thrower or e3 DiamondFIRE would work and play nice with the "igniter" module. Any increased performance or MPG would be welcomed but not the point in using one, just looking for solid connections.
So to restate the questions quickly and clearly:
What's my best option on replacing the 4 pin connector to the distributor?
Is there anything unique about the 2.6 ignition coil and it's igniter on a Rodeo that would make the version in a Pu'p/Amigo, or an off-the-shelf universal "racing" ignition coil, not work?
Anyone know where to get a new 4 pin for the distributor I could use that has the right retaining mechanism? Also, I'm thinking of using a "wrong" ignition coil. The one in the Pu'p looks like the holes are the same distance apart so itd fit in the bracket on the valve cover and be grounded, looks like it only differs in using a pigtail I recognize as a windshield wiper fluid pump pigtail for most makes, which would be nice because it seems less prone to breaking and slipping off, beefier contacts. But I'm also curious if a "high performance" or "racing" universal ignition coil with studs and nuts for the two input wires eliminating a pigtail altogether and a single spark plug style female wire terminal like a PerTronix flame thrower or e3 DiamondFIRE would work and play nice with the "igniter" module. Any increased performance or MPG would be welcomed but not the point in using one, just looking for solid connections.
So to restate the questions quickly and clearly:
What's my best option on replacing the 4 pin connector to the distributor?
Is there anything unique about the 2.6 ignition coil and it's igniter on a Rodeo that would make the version in a Pu'p/Amigo, or an off-the-shelf universal "racing" ignition coil, not work?
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That's the only way this truck has ever been driven by us, unfortunately the distributor one tends to wiggle out eventually anyways, and I just ****ed up the plastic where the ignition coil pigtails goes cutting the ziptie off and being on top of the valve cover that needs to be opened a little too much. Dry Arizona air and temperature extremes also tend to make them crack off within a couple months And it's my wife's truck so I either have to drop whatever I'm doing and come figure that out as soon as it happens or she's dramatically reminding me of the times she had to wait for a tow home every time she sees a 2023 Bronco.Why don't you put the connector together, wrap a ziptie around the middle of it (in between the middle wires) to hold it together, and then verify continuity through the connection
I'm so dumb, I just found my own old post searching DTC41, that's the code I got last time I had it all back together with the timing belt two teeth off. Probably could've got away with no wiring work if I didn't break the ignition coil a couple days ago
Here's a kit with 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6-pin connectors, both male and female sides. Maybe something like that would work:
Amazon.com: VIGRUE 301Pcs 20 Kits Waterproof Car Electrical Wire Connector Terminals Plug Kit 1/2/3/4/6/Male&Female Pin Small Plug 18-14AWG Water Resistend Truck Harness Plug Car Spark Plug Connector : Automotive
Buy VIGRUE 301Pcs 20 Kits Waterproof Car Electrical Wire Connector Terminals Plug Kit 1/2/3/4/6/Male&Female Pin Small Plug 18-14AWG Water Resistend Truck Harness Plug Car Spark Plug Connector: Plug Connectors - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
smile.amazon.com
Yeah, that kit the two pin doesn't quite fit a Rodeo coil but a couple similar ones also available from Amazon do, but the plastic hump on the coil is bigger than the one on the terminals in any of the kits and the retaining flap has broken off the very next time I needed to pull the valve cover I believe 4 times now. And the tiny pins are so flimsy. I really really don't feel like ever having to cut into the electrical tape holding together my main wiring harness. I'm gonna try this one, AC Delco interchange part number for one off a Pu'p or Amigo, with the pigtail that came with a universal wiper fluid bottle/pump kitHere's a kit with 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6-pin connectors, both male and female sides. Maybe something like that would work:
Amazon.com: VIGRUE 301Pcs 20 Kits Waterproof Car Electrical Wire Connector Terminals Plug Kit 1/2/3/4/6/Male&Female Pin Small Plug 18-14AWG Water Resistend Truck Harness Plug Car Spark Plug Connector : Automotive
Buy VIGRUE 301Pcs 20 Kits Waterproof Car Electrical Wire Connector Terminals Plug Kit 1/2/3/4/6/Male&Female Pin Small Plug 18-14AWG Water Resistend Truck Harness Plug Car Spark Plug Connector: Plug Connectors - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchasessmile.amazon.com
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If there's a problem with your distributor or it's wiring, you will have a check engine light and the active code you will find is 41.
If you do not have this code your no spark issue is related to the output side or control side of the system which also includes the high voltage section of the ignition system.
If the ignition coil you plan on using is not a Isuzu coil, and you don't mind wiring & mounting it there is no "wrong coil." The ignition coil is a 150 plus year old device and it's made from noting more than 2 coils of wire. The only difference is output voltage and all of them are extremely high, along with wire connections.
I have re-manufactured and used distributor wiring harnesses available. I also have other wiring harnesses plus repair parts too.
If you do not have this code your no spark issue is related to the output side or control side of the system which also includes the high voltage section of the ignition system.
If the ignition coil you plan on using is not a Isuzu coil, and you don't mind wiring & mounting it there is no "wrong coil." The ignition coil is a 150 plus year old device and it's made from noting more than 2 coils of wire. The only difference is output voltage and all of them are extremely high, along with wire connections.
I have re-manufactured and used distributor wiring harnesses available. I also have other wiring harnesses plus repair parts too.
Awesome thanks for the answer on the coil, I've just never had a vehicle I worked on myself (newer stuff I usually take to a mechanic) where I was aware of a separate ignitor module, was worried I might damage it using something else.If there's a problem with your distributor or it's wiring, you will have a check engine light and the active code you will find is 41.
If you do not have this code your no spark issue is related to the output side or control side of the system which also includes the high voltage section of the ignition system.
If the ignition coil you plan on using is not a Isuzu coil, and you don't mind wiring & mounting it there is no "wrong coil." The ignition coil is a 150 plus year old device and it's made from noting more than 2 coils of wire. The only difference is output voltage and all of them are extremely high, along with wire connections.
I have re-manufactured and used distributor wiring harnesses available. I also have other wiring harnesses plus repair parts too.
DTC41 is the only code I have other than the standard 12, but I'm pretty sure I've also had that code pop up when I attempted to start it after being two teeth off on the timing belt between the crank and cam sprockets, and it looks like the coil and ignitor are part of that harness. So I'm not sure if it's just the distributor harness lacking a clip, a broken wire at the coil terminal, or if I might've accidentally sheared a wire or popped the connection loose at the ignitor because I just realized where I relocated it leaves a section of wire invisible without tearing the engine back down.
Guess I need to find that continuity tester and electrical troubleshooting manual and get off my *** today
Shawn if you're still personal check and snail mail only, I don't have a checkbook and my town has a mail theft problem, Amazon and UPS being willing to leave my packages in the garage has me using them only right now. You happen to know for sure if this "Mitsubishi TPS Pigtail" is the same as the later 4 pin Isuzu flat distributor connector? Everything Isuzu at the local junkyard right now has a 3 pin disty
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Before I turn the key, does anybody know if I got the wires to the ignition coil switched around, is it likely to still spark but weak, no start no spark, or blow the igniter? Same question for the igniter haha
I found a NIB crank angle pigtail and got it on, now the code 41 is gone but still no spark. Running that by your suggestions, it's on the output side... tried swapping in spare igniter, made sure I had continuity from coil to distributor, what else does that include? Also thinking I should test that 4 pin crank angle harness but service manual says not to test resistance which is how I'd think to check my ground continuity is good. Also not sure what voltage I should be seeing on the other 3 pins to verify. I think one is constant 12v+ but what are the two signal and reference signals going to come up as?If there's a problem with your distributor or it's wiring, you will have a check engine light and the active code you will find is 41.
If you do not have this code your no spark issue is related to the output side or control side of the system which also includes the high voltage section of the ignition system.
If the ignition coil you plan on using is not a Isuzu coil, and you don't mind wiring & mounting it there is no "wrong coil." The ignition coil is a 150 plus year old device and it's made from noting more than 2 coils of wire. The only difference is output voltage and all of them are extremely high, along with wire connections.
I have re-manufactured and used distributor wiring harnesses available. I also have other wiring harnesses plus repair parts too.
Your DMM resistance test works by applying 9V into the circuit you are testing. Your meeter then measures how much voltage is lost thruout the circuit. The digital circuitry calculates the resistance by using ohm's law & displays the value on the screen. 9v from your test leads being applied the the sensor input pins of the ECM will overload the ECM input circuits causing damage. To perform a resistance or continuity test on these wires you must first isolate the ECM by unplug the connector at the ECM & distributor. At the opposite side of the wire harness ground out the wire you wish to perform the continuity test on. At the other end grab your meeter and probe the wire you want to test & ground your other test lead.I found a NIB crank angle pigtail and got it on, now the code 41 is gone but still no spark. Running that by your suggestions, it's on the output side... made sure I had continuity from coil to distributor, Also thinking I should test that 4 pin crank angle harness but service manual says not to.
The first step in proper troubleshooting is to isolate the section of the ignition system the fault lies in.
1-
The easiest way to go about it is to verify spark from out of the coil. Not the coil wire... From the coil itself. If the coil sparks see 1B
If the coil doesn't spark see 2.
1B-
Spark out the coil means the primary winding circuit is functioning as it should & your issue is in the secondary side or high tension electrical circit. Think of the ignition coil as nothing more than a power supply. The cap and rotor as nothing more than a rotary switch and the spark plugs as a light. Some how the current isn't flowing from the plug to the coil. When you locate the point at where the current stops your issue will be the component right before.
2-
If you have no spark coming out of the coil then, your issue will be found in the coils primary winding circuit. The coil primary circuit is made up of 1/2 the coil. The ignition modulator, the cars battery plus a couple fuses and relays. With the key on; Grab your DMM to verify 12V at the + pin of the coil & one pin of the ignition modulator. Not check again while cranking the engine. Next thing to do is verify ignition pulse signal from the ECM. Grab your DMM to verify frequency on the input pin of the ignition modulator. What is the frequency? You will need to do some math. Here is the formula: RPM × circle degrees X # of cylinders ÷ Otto cycle = pulse Hertz. Assuming your engine is cranking over at 600RRPM (which is about minimum starting speed)
The arithmetic is as fallows....
600 RPM X 360 degrees = 216,000.
216,000 X 4 cylinders = 864,000.
864,000 = 720 Otto cycle = 1200hz or 1.2Khz.
These step should lead you directly to the fault in the ignition system. If not, try again to double check. If you come up with the same results, troubleshooting of the ECM & the power distribution circuit is required from this point. .
I'll go through this procedure tonight, thanks, that's what I've been trying to piece together from a bunch of different posts and the service manual, not wanting to do it until I was sure because of the risk to the ECM.Your DMM resistance test works by applying 9V into the circuit you are testing. Your meeter then measures how much voltage is lost thruout the circuit. The digital circuitry calculates the resistance by using ohm's law & displays the value on the screen. 9v from your test leads being applied the the sensor input pins of the ECM will overload the ECM input circuits causing damage. To perform a resistance or continuity test on these wires you must first isolate the ECM by unplug the connector at the ECM & distributor. At the opposite side of the wire harness ground out the wire you wish to perform the continuity test on. At the other end grab your meeter and probe the wire you want to test & ground your other test lead.
The first step in proper troubleshooting is to isolate the section of the ignition system the fault lies in.
1-
The easiest way to go about it is to verify spark from out of the coil. Not the coil wire... From the coil itself. If the coil sparks see 1B
If the coil doesn't spark see 2.
1B-
Spark out the coil means the primary winding circuit is functioning as it should & your issue is in the secondary side or high tension electrical circit. Think of the ignition coil as nothing more than a power supply. The cap and rotor as nothing more than a rotary switch and the spark plugs as a light. Some how the current isn't flowing from the plug to the coil. When you locate the point at where the current stops your issue will be the component right before.
2-
If you have no spark coming out of the coil then, your issue will be found in the coils primary winding circuit. The coil primary circuit is made up of 1/2 the coil. The ignition modulator, the cars battery plus a couple fuses and relays. With the key on; Grab your DMM to verify 12V at the + pin of the coil & one pin of the ignition modulator. Not check again while cranking the engine. Next thing to do is verify ignition pulse signal from the ECM. Grab your DMM to verify frequency on the input pin of the ignition modulator. What is the frequency? You will need to do some math. Here is the formula: RPM × circle degrees X # of cylinders ÷ Otto cycle = pulse Hertz. Assuming your engine is cranking over at 600RRPM (which is about minimum starting speed)
The arithmetic is as fallows....
600 RPM X 360 degrees = 216,000.
216,000 X 4 cylinders = 864,000.
864,000 = 720 Otto cycle = 1200hz or 1.2Khz.
These step should lead you directly to the fault in the ignition system. If not, try again to double check. If you come up with the same results, troubleshooting of the ECM & the power distribution circuit is required from this point. .
I was working on it in the dark last night and when I went to start it I noticed that the oil pressure light came on very dimly, possibly dim enough I couldn't see while the sun is up. So I figured something must be loose there, and I found a terminal hanging on by one strand of copper, so I fixed that up. Went to start it and now the oil light was on, but now I've got codes 33 and 35, which is igniter and injectors 1 and 4. So I'm guessing I yanked them loose stripping that wire for the oil pressure sensor because most of the underhood wiring harnesses were taped together 20 years before we got the truck and every time I have to cut into any of it to fix a wire something else breaks so I try not to touch it. So I'm going to chase that down next, then get into that procedure you gave me. It occurred to me that just the oil light being on or the pressure sensor wiring breaking might keep the ECM from letting it spark. Checked the oil, guess I didn't wait long enough for it to drip down with the cold weather before I checked it, it's a little overfilled. Does overfilling usually trip the sensor and does the oil light tell the ECM not to trigger spark?
If I've got a multimeter that takes 2 AAs instead of a 9v is it still a risk to the ECM?
Yes, still at high risk of damaging the ECM.If I've got a multimeter that takes 2 AAs instead of a 9v is it still a risk to the ECM?
The oil pressure sensor is not affected by overfilling of the engine oil.
Your active 33 & 35 codes is good to know. It verifies we are on the right track as 35 is for the ignition modulator circuit...just as I was suspecting. 33 is for the MAP/Injector circuit.
To test the ignition modulator code 35 some of the previous steps I described which involves all the math is now unesssary. This is because the ECM has just perform the test for you. At this point I would check that the ignition module & coil has 12v power. Also check the wire between the ignition modulator and the ECM has continuity.
Code 33, I believe you are on the right track with this one.
Going over the electrical troubleshooting manual, looks like the oil pressure switch can stop the fuel pump from getting power and I mixed up how it would stop the truck from starting because it was a long time ago.Yes, still at high risk of damaging the ECM.
The oil pressure sensor is not affected by overfilling of the engine oil.
Your active 33 & 35 codes is good to know. It verifies we are on the right track as 35 is for the ignition modulator circuit...just as I was suspecting. 33 is for the MAP/Injector circuit.
To test the ignition modulator code 35 some of the previous steps I described which involves all the math is now unesssary. This is because the ECM has just perform the test for you. At this point I would check that the ignition module & coil has 12v power. Also check the wire between the ignition modulator and the ECM has continuity.
Code 33, I believe you are on the right track with this one.
I found two injector harnesses not seated all the way in, and one of the terminals on the igniter had pulled out of the plastic housing of the two pin connector, probably enough to keep it from seating, guessing I did that redoing the 4 pin flat connector on the crank angle sensor. If the key is in the on position, can I just go from where the high tension wire from the ignition coil to the distributor plugs in on the coil with my positive lead, battery negative with my negative lead, with my MM set to DCV? Just in case someone needs to be cranking it while I look at the meter or I'd be better off checking voltage at the two pin connector before the coil rather than the high tension.
Also, already verified conductivity between the ignition module and the coil while fixing the connector on the module.
Your DMM is not designed to measure the exetreamely high tension voltage produced by the ignition coil. To do so would require a special high voltage probe with a minimum of 150,000 V rating. I do have a few extra laying around from my TV repair days if you like one.If the key is in the on position, can I just go from where the high tension wire from the ignition coil to the distributor plugs in on the coil with my positive lead, battery negative with my negative lead, with my MM set to DCV? Just in case someone needs to be cranking it while I look at the meter or I'd be better off checking voltage at the two pin connector before the coil rather than the high tension.
If you found connectors that were not secured correctly &/or connector pins that were pushed out of the connector body instead of making contact...it's safe to say this probably has fixed your issue. At this point I would simply connect everything on the engine as it should be & try to start the engine. It's either going to start or not. If not, well you know your closer & can continue troubleshooting.
Still won't start but I'm at no codes, 12v to one pin and a tiny fraction of a volt to the other on the ignition coil harness. I'm almost thinking I might've mixed up the two middle green wires for reference and signal voltage on the 4 pin crank angle connection is there an objective test for which is which? I guess I could also have a bad rotor on my hands but that would mean it failed out of nowhere since I got the new head on and it hasn't been driven. I opened up the distributor and made sure it was spinning and lined up correctly.Your DMM is not designed to measure the exetreamely high tension voltage produced by the ignition coil. To do so would require a special high voltage probe with a minimum of 150,000 V rating. I do have a few extra laying around from my TV repair days if you like one.
If you found connectors that were not secured correctly &/or connector pins that were pushed out of the connector body instead of making contact...it's safe to say this probably has fixed your issue. At this point I would simply connect everything on the engine as it should be & try to start the engine. It's either going to start or not. If not, well you know your closer & can continue troubleshooting.
Put a spark plug in the high voltage wire from the coil to the distributor, grounded it against the body, ran a jumper with alligator clips to ground just to be sure body paint isn't in the way where I could see it from the driver's seat, no spark at on or start positions on the ignition switch. Tested the ignitor by a couple procedures found on here. If I mixed up wires on the crank angle connector at the distributor, would it be no codes but "1...2...1...2" like normal, oil light on the first couple seconds I'm cranking then it goes off like normal, but no spark?
I'm just thinking I wrote green wire, and green and yellow wire, for signal and reference voltage wires, and I don't see color so good and I had a high pressure sodium lamp on and there was no green and yellow wire when I went to put the new pigtail on.
I'm just thinking I wrote green wire, and green and yellow wire, for signal and reference voltage wires, and I don't see color so good and I had a high pressure sodium lamp on and there was no green and yellow wire when I went to put the new pigtail on.
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