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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The dude (a friend) I bought my trooper from put a 30-06 to his chest today and ended it all. He was losing his farm. Another friend of ours was there buying his cattle while the bank was hauling off his trucks and equipment and soon taking the property. This particular banker is well known to overextend people and then take them to the cleaners. He (the deceased) told the cattle buying friend to open a pasture gate while he hooked a trailer up to his pickup. He reached into the rear seat area, stood against the open rear door, grabbed the rifle and ended his life. Used some kind of ballistic round. Did not cause a through and through wound though it really f'ed up the entrance area.
 

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Bankers can go to hell. Money is ruining the world. Did your friend have family? I hope karma gets this banker up the ***.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys. Yep, wife and 5 kids. Super guy, super father. Yeah, he had lost a decent paying part time job (about 50K annual) about a year ago and he grew broiler chickens. The chicken folks came in one day and told him he needed to "upgrade" his poultry houses, with computers, etc. though he was always in the top 5% of growers. He couldn't afford the six figure upgrade so they cut him off. They do a lot of that to take poultry out of production thus keeping the demand greater than the supply. When you compound that with the increased prices of feed (corn spelled ETHANOL), fuel, etc, they just don't have a chance. I see poultry farmers going down everyday. My county is/was the largest producer of poultry next to the megafarms in California. Very sad.
 

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Shooter, I'm sorry for your loss. My condolences go out to you and his family.

It's a cryin shame that farms struggle like this. Why can't we go back to the way things used to be, where an honest, hard working man can make a living and not have that taken away from him by crooked bankers and big business? Money, power, and greed are ruining America. If the Founding Fathers could see what we've become they'd roll over in their graves.

-Robert
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks my friend. Things are so different now. This guy worked harder and more hours than anyone I know. Give you the shirt off his back. Never sour, just always working. A real throwback. I agree with you. We have truly lost our way. Sure hate it for the younger folks. What a fine nation we once were. Oh yes, there were bad things for sure. We've improved greatly on those though it appears perhaps at the expense of what was once great about us. But yeah, you nailed; greed. I will never understand and I will never want to, how someone can stiff another for the almighty dollar. I've led mostly a comfortable life but I'd surely die a pauper before I would stick it to someone (unless they were an ***).
 

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TKEPA251 said:
Shooter, I'm sorry for your loss. My condolences go out to you and his family.

It's a cryin shame that farms struggle like this. Why can't we go back to the way things used to be, where an honest, hard working man can make a living and not have that taken away from him by crooked bankers and big business? Money, power, and greed are ruining America. If the Founding Fathers could see what we've become they'd roll over in their graves.

-Robert
Capitalism: Where the heart is replaced by money.
 

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Damn Shooter, That's rough. It's even worse for the family. I hope they land on their feet somehow.

Greed is right! I read somewhere in the news recently that 50% of the wealth in the US is in the hands of 400 families! The entire world is run by sociopaths!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yep. I'm all about accumulating wealth in an honorable manner. For so many though, I just wonder how much do you really need and to what extent are you willing to go? Seems to me where you pass a threshold where the interest becomes a chase of power and "recognition" from your peers. Not to be gruesome, however, the info from the medic was incorrect. I talked with the deputy this morning who said the weapon was a 264 win. mag. and it left an exit wound in his lower side about 14" x 6". Entry was in the upper soft tissue area above the collarbone and then traveled downward to the opposite side. Sounds like he was bent over at the waist going for a head shot.
 

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It truly sucks that the cards were stacked against him like that, but it is a cowardly move to bail on your family when things get tough...
 

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BigSwede said:
It truly sucks that the cards were stacked against him like that, but it is a cowardly move to bail on your family when things get tough...
Hush with comments like this. (and trust me, I understand what you're trying to say)

It's really easy for us to come in here and say something like that when we have no idea how that person was feeling at the time. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not, but for some, they feel it's the best way to protect their family from being homeless. (Insurance etc.)

Sucks to hear dude.
 

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That sucks shooter. Really does.

I wish the best for his family. How tragic.
 

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I have some extremely personal experience with this subject and some valid points have been made. But the fact is nobody does this in their right mind. Desperate people are usually not rational. Clinically depressed people make rash choices.

Insurance often does not pay off in suicide cases.

If he was doing this premeditated he should have made it count by taking out the banker and the poultry rep 1st!

Suicide is never good. I personally make exceptions for termanally ill old people in chronic pain and suffering.

Like said above tragic indeed!
 

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Canuck said:
BigSwede said:
It truly sucks that the cards were stacked against him like that, but it is a cowardly move to bail on your family when things get tough...
Hush with comments like this. (and trust me, I understand what you're trying to say)

It's really easy for us to come in here and say something like that when we have no idea how that person was feeling at the time. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not, but for some, they feel it's the best way to protect their family from being homeless. (Insurance etc.)
I hesitated before posting because I'm sure there is much more to the story than I know. Maybe there was insurance money, maybe not (most life insurance doesn't pay for suicide though). No doubt he was feeling quite desperate, possibly some sort of mental illness or even environmental issues affecting judgement (lead poisoning is only one example of a thousand things that can play with your mind).

But the bottom line is, I would find it very, very hard to justify leaving a wife and 5 kids on their own under any circumstances.
 

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Med!c said:
Capitalism: Where the heart is replaced by money.
I would say Corporatism bears the red right hand here. When you deregulate a Capitalist society as much as we have, you get Corporatism.

8 years ago I had a friend but a bullet through his head over the same situation. Wife and new born baby. Lost his job, home and his mind. His younger brother played bass in an old band of mine and wears the staind hat to this day with the hole through it.

Suicide is not painless when it leaves everyone in pain. I have never been that far down that road, so I have no idea. All I know is that hope you are well Shooter and his family gets through all of this.

My condolences.

cheers
-Ian :blackeye:
 

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Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

All problems are temporary, because all problems have solutions.

You might not like the solution, but there is always a solution.

That said...

Most people think they know what depression is.
Most people are mistaken.

Most people who think they know what depression is, have had the blues at some time. They think that is depression.

Thinking that you know what depression is, because you have had the blues, no matter how 'deeply' you had the blues... Is like thinking you know what it is to be a paraplegic, because you have stubbed your toe.

There is no real point of reference that can be used to explain depression, to someone who has not suffered it. Unless you have suffered it, you can never fathom the reality.

Now...

None of us can think of any logicical way that suicide will really solve anything. You can think of all kinds of other stuff you can do, besides commiting suicide.

But to someone who is clinicaly depressed, and suicidal... In their head. there IS no other choice. Everything they can think of, doesn't seem to them that it could work. And at that point, their brain chemistry is not only telling them they can't find a solution, but that if they could.. What would be the point ? Everything is useless. Even if they live, they'd still be a problem, themselves. Everyone, the world, would be better off without them.

At that point, in their chemically altered brains, suicide is the ONLY logical choice.

If you can't fathom that, you'll never understand why those people can not "just pull themselves up by their bootstraps".

Nor will you ever understand just how azzinine and idiotic it is to sit around and tell those people they should do so.

This man did not need someone to tell him to stop being a wuss, and get on with life. He didn't need platitudes and cliches from people who have never experienced what he was experiencing.

He needed help.

Same goes for his family and friends. They don't need to be told how much of a coward he was. They need help and understanding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Fortunately, the kids are all adults. He was 61. Though he was full of life, etc, he suffered from long term depression, heart issues, chronic back pain, just put his mom in an assisted living facility, etc. He was a very independent and proud man. Could not help folks enough though rarely accepted a helping hand from others. Not saying it was right or wrong; just wonder what I'd do under similar circumstances. I'd probably join a forum on how to do it. :D
 

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Jeff - you are quite correct. I don't disagree with anything you said. I truly don't understand depression. Most of us don't.

But while depression is often a factor for suicide, it isn't always, and until shooter's most recent post, depression was not mentioned as a factor. Throw depression into the mix, and my remark about cowardice become irrelevant, and I withdraw it.
 

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shooter said:
Thanks guys. Yep, wife and 5 kids. Super guy, super father.
I am sorry about that.

...........

But, honestly, I can understand taking your own life only if there is nobody left behind. He had wife, kids (albeit grown-ups), may be a dog or a cat. Did he think about them a bit ? I am sorry to say that, but his actions are selfish and childish. Couldn't he hang around for a few years more, just for the wife & kids & dogs & cats & whatever depends on you ? I guess all of his relatives are going through a hell of time.

i went through an awful time a few years ago, and at some point I had in my life only a cat who needed me. That was enough for me to hang on and provide for my cat. But having a wife, and doing that awful thing to her... I cannot imagine that.
 

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BigSwede said:
Jeff - you are quite correct. I don't disagree with anything you said. I truly don't understand depression. Most of us don't.

But while depression is often a factor for suicide, it isn't always, and until shooter's most recent post, depression was not mentioned as a factor. Throw depression into the mix, and my remark about cowardice become irrelevant, and I withdraw it.
True ! I hadn't noticed that. Didn't even think about it. I need to pay more attention.

:D

Since the only experience I have had with suicides have all been with people who were depressed, I guess it was a natural assumption.
 
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