[Meta]

First, though I've been reading posts here for a while now, this is my first. This site has been incredibly informative... so thanks to everyone.

Quick background on my '98 Amigo problems: CEL went off/on for months and I never thought much about it, as tightening the gas cap seemed to do the trick. Eventually, tho, the engine started running rough... idling erratically and sometimes stalling at stoplights (just about a month before I finished paying it off, I might add). Having never done any work on cars before, following tips on this site (starting with the free ECU read from AutoZone), I was able to replace the PCV valve, replace the fuel filter, change the spark plugs, clean the EGR valve and throttle body... all to no avail.

So I finally took it to a mechanic who replaced an ignitor coil (clearing up the Cyl #4 misfire code), but still had a P0405 and P0171. They said this pointed to a vacuum leak. They even called me into the garage to listen to it whistle. However, they checked the intake gasket and accessible hoses and couldn't find any leaks. They want to open up the intake manifold, replace the gasket and look around for where the leak might be coming from, so while we wait on parts, I brought the Amigo home for the holidays.

Last night I had to take an emergency trip to the grocery. On the way home I noticed a new "rattle" under the hood that got worse at higher RPM's, but wasn't really sync'd with the engine (as a normal knocking/pinging would be). This morning, with some daylight, I checked it out and found this.

Per this diagram:

, it's pulley #2. The bracket holding this pulley on has snapped! Merry Christmas to me! Pulley #2 is now resting tightly atop the crankshaft pulley (#1). When not running, the belt is loose. But when running, somehow it's tightening up enough that I don't lose power steering and the alternator is still turning.

So my first question... anyone see this happen before? If so, what could have caused it? Second, is this pulley #2 just an idle pulley? Third, is it possible that the "whistle" we heard was the belt running over this pulley, possibly siezed, and we just didn't notice it wasn't turning? Fourth, is there any way this could have resulted in the error codes I'm getting, or is it something completely different, and I should still investigate the possible vacuum leak?

And... what's the worst damage I could do driving it? She made it about 20 miles this way last night. The shop is about 30 miles away. Should I chance driving it, or just have it towed?

Finally, regarding the diagram of pulleys, can someone ID the rest, or correct my determinations? (The Haynes manual I have isn't all that great.)

1. Crankshaft
2. ?? (just an idle pulley?)
3. Idle Tensioner
4. Alternator
5. A/C compressor
6. Power Steering pump
7. ??
7 (the other 7). The serpentine drive belt itself.

Thanks,
-Meta

 

[Tad]

The good news is that that bracket is relatively easy to replace. There are 4 nuts holding the fan onto the front of it, and 3 nuts that hold it to the engine.

#7 is just an idler.

The worry that I would have with that bracket broken is that the fan will hit the radiator and damage it, causing a leak, possible overheating and engine death. That isn't very likely though. Is there a lot of room around the fan? Is it cold there and can you drive without idling in traffic? If you can manage to get around without idling in traffic, you can remove the fan (and reinstall the 4 nuts that hold it on) while you wait for an idler bracket to show up. The fan keeps the engine from overheating while you are moving slowely. At speed (probably 30mph+) the air moving into the grill is enough to cool the engine.

-Tad

 

[chasespeed]

Number 7 is the only true idler pulley.
Number 3 is you tensioner pulley
And numerb 2 is your cooling fan pulley.

I will strongly advise against driving with you belt hooked to anythign here, as Tad said, you could have the fn come loose and hit the radiator.

When its at rest, yeah, its gonna rest against the crankshaft pully, because of the belt tension, and when you have the motor running, its pulling the opposite way, adn keeping it off there....

NOW, if the other tabs on the mount break(however unlikely, totally possible at this point), you could have some serious issues....metal flying around an engine compartment......ouch...

Anyway, when you take it to the mech, remove the belt, and the fan...you will run off battery...if you have a manual, all the better, minimizing all the electronics possible.... no hard accereation etc...

This is the best advise I can give ya... that bracket should be easy to replace, but can cause all kinds of probs if it lets go totally....

And yes, I looked at BOTH of mine before this response....just to verify the mounting points adn such.....

Oh, and I have no idea how far on of these will go on just teh battery... havent had to do that yet......

Good luck.... and HTH
Chase

 

[tomster]

Kind to hard to envision the cracked bracket being anything but a fluke casting flaw. Even if the pulley froze in place you would have likely heard a belt squeal rather than just a bracket flapping. The pulley would also still be frozen.

I wouldn't drive it like that. Removing the belt could prevent a more expensive problem as already noted. It could cause an even more expensive one if you cannot safely steer it once the power steering pump is no longer pumping. Maybe you could use the old panty hose trick and loop it over pullies 1,5, and 6 for the ride to the shop??? If nothing else it might help give you a future out should the wife find some pantyhose in the car in the future :lol:

Seems odd the mechanic couldn't find the leak/noise. Even if they didn't have a mechanic's stethescope they could have at least put a piece of heater hose to their ear and carefully passed the other end over the engine to try and pinpoint the souce. Either that or if it was a vacuum leak the old tried and true spray something like WD40 carefully around and listen for an RPM change trick.

The 0171 code is indeed likely to be a vacuum leak. The 0405 is an EGR code so I don't see how a new IMG would help that.

Good luck.

 

[JTK]

I have seen reports of this exact same fan bracket failure on 1998+ 3.2/3.5 on the 'zu boards over the years. Has something to do with uneven bolt torqueing / one of the bolts working it's way loose, causing this aluminum casting to vibrate & eventually break the assembly. Glad it didn't strand you! No idea what a replacement costs. St.Charles should stock them.
G/luck
Joel

 

[Meta]

Thanks for the replies, guys! I didn't even notice pulley #2 was connected to the fan. Duh. But I do remember the fan was turning (and still does), so that blows my theory of a siezed pulley and all these problems being related. I guess this is one more problem to add on top of the rest.

So, I have no pantyhose around. ;-) I'll try removing the fan this morning, see how it goes and get back to ya.

 

[Meta]

Ugh. First, removing fan: no good. When I try to turn the bolts, the whole pulley assembly wants to turn. I can't hold it solid enough to break the nuts loose.

I thought about what Tad said... 3 bolts hold the assembly to the engine. So I looked around for that 3rd bracket mount point. The hole for it was there, but the bolt was missing. It was either never installed or somehow shook loose. Then I thought I'd just steal the bolt from the upper (broken) mount point and bolt in the bottom of the bracket. Turns out that bottom hole in the engine is either not threaded, or the bolts aren't the same size (or the previous one is broken off inside), as the bolt would only go in about 1/2" and never caught threads.

So, I'm either going to order the bracket and fit it before taking it back to the shop to address the other things, or just call and have them tow it in. I guess I'll spend the rest of the morning shoveling snow out from behind the Miata.

 

[mtboulder]

I just replaced this bracket/pulley on my '98 Trooper because it was making noise when cold. The Trooper had 3 attachement points. Two long bolts (about 6") for the top and lower rt mount (when facing the engine). The lower left mount was a nut that screwed onto a treaded stud coming out of the engine. Cost for new one was just under $200.

 

[Meta]

I know you guys like follow-ups to know how the story ended.

After a month in the shop, they welded the fan-mount bracket back together for $90 labor.

However, resolving the other problems (funky high/low idle, stalling and trouble codes), they replaced the intake manifold gasket because I told them to... but to no avail. Once I let them due their thing, they replaced a bad ignition coil, 2 bad fuel injectors, and the exhaust manifold gaskets. Grand total, with labor, was $670... and now she runs like new.

-Meta

 

[csmith]

I know I am bring an old thread back from the dead but it is very one topic.
At 130,000km my fan bracket broke. I assume it was original. When it broke and tilted down it also broke the bottom stud off flush with the motor. Probably the same thing that happened to Meta above.
Long story short I replaced it all with a used bracket I bought from someone here and new belts/bolts. A week later it happened all over again. Is there any known causes for this? I see JTK points to improper tightening/tourqe on the 3 mounting bolts as a possible problem. I guess that is possible for the one that I jusr recently installed, I did not tourqe them, but I did tightem them all a fair bit and evenly. But, I doubt that is why the original part broke after 7 years. All the other pulleys seem to turn easily except the air conditioning. Not sure if that is supposed to turn by hand. Pulleys appear to be straight, at least by eye.

Any good suggestions before I put yet another bracket and belt on it. Obviously I can tourque it carfully this time. BTW, what is the correct tourqe for the 3 mounting bolts?

Thanks for any help,
Corey

 

[Dos Amigos]

I have my 2000 3.2 Amigo apart at this time[cracked head]. My manual says 16 ft. lbs. for fan pulley assy. mounting bolts. My a/c pulley spins freely & the a/c works great. The pulley should spin freely until the clutch engages to spin the compressor. If it is hard to turn it could be putting stress on the fan pulley assy.

 

[csmith]

Thanks for the spec, I wasn't sure about the AC pulley but that would make sense if it is supposed to spin freely. It does spin when the truck is running and you can here it load up the engine when it kicks in. The AC works ok. But it must be putting too much strain on the bracket.

Thanks
- Corey