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When it only affects you, that's a personal choice. Maybe wearing a helmet motorcycling, or wearing your seat belt would fit that category.

When a choice affects others, it's no longer just personal, is it?

So for those who don't want the vaccine, but want to live as if all is normal, I just want to understand that viewpoint. I'm beyond trying to change minds--and I'm definitely not trying to belittle anyone.

Just a few more words here, and hope I don't ruffle to many feathers. life is all about choices. And there are consequences for both good and bad ones we make along the way. I'm 85, and didn't make it this far making bad ones. I take 4 different prescriptions for blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol and yearly flu shots and a pneumonia shot when needed along with 2 shingles vaccines. Also got the covid vaccine and will no doubt get the booster when it becomes available. You younger fellas will be faced with many of these same choices as you age. You can do as you please with them. I never had a doctor tell me what to do or take , it has always been my choice. A pilot makes a choice when he see's a storm ahead on his radar. Some have chosen to fly thru it to not emerge on the other side. My taking the covid vaccine was the right choice for me. Now back to some Isuzu posts.
 
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Discussion Starter · #142 ·
A friend showed me this yesterday. She has yet to get the shot
Seen anybody with polio?
Seen anybody with Measles?
Get the shot.
Dennis
 

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JoeIsuzu said:
When it only affects you, that's a personal choice. Maybe wearing a helmet motorcycling, or wearing your seat belt would fit that category.

When a choice affects others, it's no longer just personal, is it?Jack
How does it affect others? You've already agreed that vaccinated people are catching and spreading the virus. If I am affecting others by living a normal healthy life I am not sure I see the distinction. Since I have not had covid nor been sick in years, am I just asymptomatically spreading covid like a twisted Johnny Appleseed? If so, again how is that different than the vaccinated spreaders? Am I taking a risk with my own health? Perhaps but we make decisions everyday that help or hinder your health. What you eat, exercise etc. I understand that if I catch covid it could be worse than it would be if I had the shot. I also understand that the shot might have some undesirable long term side effects that we do not know about. There is myocarditis and other circulatory issues reported etc. My wife has had swollen lymph nodes since she had the shot and a general malaise. Might be unrelated, might not.

Honestly the bigger question IMO is why no one is even talking about the fact that China deliberately biologically attacked the West? This is a bio weapon and frankly they've succeeded incredibly at knee capping the western economies. Even if it was not meant in some evil scheme, they certainly allowed it to spread around the world. China wants to be the world super power and they want to replace the dollar as the worlds currency. With covid and the clowns running the west they are well on their way to achieving their goals.

itsmehb: I think you made a very wise choice. I think everyone in a high risk group should get vaccinated. I am not arguing that point.

Dennis: This virus is not going away like measles or polio. This is more like the annual flu shot chasing the strain du jour. Its here to stay so either we completely destroy our way of life going forward or we deal with it and live as normal as possible. The flu outbreak in 1919 killed way more than this and we never closed down businesses and ruined people financially. IMO they are ramping up the fear again to begin another lockdown sometime this late fall/winter. This will conveniently require more mass mail in voting. COVID is the best political cudgel I've seen in my lifetime.

I hope I am not offending anyone with my personal opinions. I kind of wish this thread was closed because I need all of you guys advice on my trooper and I don't want to piss you all off :) I did get my new/junkyard G80 in the old trooper last night. Fingers crossed its in good shape.
 

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giusedtobe said:
I hope I am not offending anyone with my personal opinions. I kind of wish this thread was closed because I need all of you guys advice on my trooper and I don't want to piss you all off :)
No one should get offended as long as discussions are kept civil. I'm with you on wishing the thread was closed. I'd hate to see it escalate and the forum go down the tubes. Seen it about happen with a couple other forums I frequent. Some good folks left, taking their knowledge with them. :(

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #145 ·
Wow! So much!
First and Foremost: Alan. I don't care what opinions, what "party", what religion, which way one swings. I'M HERE TO HELP. This thread is just discussion
I still go with Where could measles be (and I almost died from measles at 3 years old 62 years ago). Same with polio
On the Government and covid, DEFINITELY against more lockdowns. Definitely against "forced vaccinations" (and it sure seems to be shaping up) Kind of trying to figure what's right and wrong with PRIVATE business forcing vaccinations. Where my wife works part time, ONE gal wouldn't get vaccinated. They work with kids (tutoring). This gal comes down with covid and left them shorthanded. City of Tampa (across the bay) : ALL employees must be vaccinated (possible medical exceptions?) Look at the Delta (Airlines) thing - 200.00 per month fine for non vaccers
You have to ask yourself: Would this latest outbreak have happened if more (all?) had gotten vaccinated?
Now here's the one that has always baffled me: As people first started getting vaccinated, it seems like all the news and commercials showed harpoon like needles being pushed all the way in as folks were getting shots. Honestly, while I'm not scared of needles (I AM scared of the dentist), I sure wasn't looking to play "Moby Dick". My needles were both maybe 3/4" long and I hardly felt a thing. Maybe it "News Media" at their best - selling fear
As for politics (and I may offend some here). Well, the current regime is sure showing how BAD a job can be done
FWIW: the friend I mentioned, she got her shot today.
Dennis
BTW: I hear that if you put a few drops of Moderna in your antifreeze, you'll NEVER have any more 2.6 head gasket issues :D
 

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Everyone is pissed at the unvaccinated for not getting vaccinated. I'm pissed at the whitetail deer population for harboring covid. Who knows what variant will come out of the deer.

I support forced vaccinations on all animals that harbor covid.

Did measles and polio have any animal crossovers?
 

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We have to be careful here comparing this "vaccine" to ones for polio or measles. Those vaccines worked, and all but eradicated those diseases. The Covid vaccine should not even be called a vaccine because as we've already established, and can not even be argued, people who have been vaccinated can still catch, spread, and die from the disease. If a booster shot is required, then we're just trying to place the entire world onto never ending prescription.

I can respond to this question, by stealing another post from a different Corona Virus thread on another board I'm active on.
You have to ask yourself: Would this latest outbreak have happened if more (all?) had gotten vaccinated?
From the other discussion:
Public Health of England has been producing a very good regular report with real numbers. I've looked to it multiple times now to see what's up.

As you know, they got Delta before us and they have some pretty darn interesting data...

117k cases in vaxed
151k cases in unvaxed
(With some unlinked)

They report 743 delta deaths out of 300k cases.

481 of those in vaxed.
253 in unvaxed.
Link to the study: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ing_20.pdf

The screen shots from the study posted in the discussion.


In the case of the delta variant in the UK, more people who are vaccinated are dying than those who aren't. That throws all the traditional encouragement to become vaccinated out the window doesn't it?

Here is another tid bit from the same guy, in the same thread.

The Denver center for performing arts just mandated vax for all guests 12+. All guests under 12, require negative test. AND all guests must be masked.

They are ensuring a 100% protected attendance but will still require masks for all.
This kind of behavior doesn't make sense at all. If everyone either must be vaccinated, or present a negative test, why are the masks still required? It doesn't make sense. To further muddy the waters, that is a private company setting a requirement. I'm a big believer if private property rights, but in times like this, when everyone is doing everything different, it makes it seem as though there is no standard and absolutely no one knows what's going on. While that is how I actually feel, government and health officials included, it isn't an overall productive state of the economy as there is no where to look for what is right or reasonable.

It's easy, and a total cop-out, to just say "well listen to the government and fall in line." The government has been wrong about this at every single step of the way, and never once has anyone come out and said, "We were wrong then and just floundering for something to tell anyone. We're sorry, this is what we know currently." Even Fauci has proven to be a liar over and over, and instead of coming clean that he's navigating in new territory like everyone else, he's doubling down on his ego and that everyone should listen to him. I don't think this was a Chinese bio-weapon, but there is very strong evidence that this was a US funded experiment, conducted in a lab with a poor safety record, and no one will fess up to it.

Anyway, a few people on my other discussion board are getting anti-body tests, and I believe I will as well. One guy had the lowest level of antibodies that the test can measure, which means zero. If you haven't been sick, and have zero anti-bodies to show that at one time you had the virus, no one has any ground to say that not getting vaccinated is a selfish act. You haven't had the virus, therefore can not be a spreader of the virus.

The following is my unpolished opinion. It is how I feel, but can't justify. It is the truth of my current mental state, without any hope to convince anyone to agree with me based on my personal feelings. /endvulnerability.
All that said, I'm of the mind that no one knows what is correct, and I can sniff out the righteous indignation of people who so desperately want to be right, but can't prove that they are. I see private businesses, government entities, medical professionals, tri-county health boards, all doing different things all over the country, and the world. I had a line here about risking my own personal safety, but it's not even about that. I've had kids and don't have a uterus, so I'm not worried about reproduction or much else. I do all kinds of stuff to jeopardize my safety (I own and work on an Isuzu). But I'm not going to be convinced into something by what I perceive as a world full of shrieking soccer mom's that can't form a logical argument to save their lives.

I'm not even against vaccines, and if we weren't living in damn bizzaro world, I probably would have gotten one already. In fact, I'm sure I'll end up getting one and it'll be no big deal. I can even predict when it will happen. When the rug get's pulled out from under me and I'm forced to choose between an ineffective vaccine and working to provide for my family. Until then, I'll wait.
 

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N law said:
Everyone is pissed at the unvaccinated for not getting vaccinated. I'm pissed at the whitetail deer population for harboring covid. Who knows what variant will come out of the deer.

I support forced vaccinations on all animals that harbor covid.

Did measles and polio have any animal crossovers?
I've heard respectable epidemiologists confirm that this virus has animal vectors which means that it can never be eradicated completely. Also like other corona viruses (common cold & flu) it will constantly mutate so all this panic and turning unvaccinated people into pariahs is absurd. This will be a forever moving target that they will offering a different vax for every year like the flu. Only difference is vaccines don't typically involve modified RNA. If I get vaxxed it will be with the JNJ version as it is a true vax and not an experimental MRNA drug.
 

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Enemigo said:
I'm not even against vaccines, and if we weren't living in damn bizzaro world, I probably would have gotten one already. In fact, I'm sure I'll end up getting one and it'll be no big deal. I can even predict when it will happen. When the rug get's pulled out from under me and I'm forced to choose between an ineffective vaccine and working to provide for my family. Until then, I'll wait.
Good information you quoted there and by my math the death rate of the D variant in the UK according to that study is .0002 Not anywhere virulent enough to cause the global hysteria and panic caused by politicians and propaganda outlets. (aka the mainstream news)

Your last statement is gold. We live in "bizarro world" now. Black is white and up is down. You really cannot believe a word you hear or read these days regardless of the source or which side of the political spectrum it comes from. In the US IMO the government agencies have all been politicized to the point that they are completely untrustworthy. This includes the FDA and the CDC. I wouldn't let Fauci treat my dog. Sadly these days you have to use your own common sense and reasoning to sift through all the BS to make decisions for yourself. I am NOT an anti-vaxxer nor am I anti science. I am however anti-pseudo-science.

Again this is all a personal choice and my opinions. Glad we can still state them here since censorship is running rampant on most platforms.
 

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Enemigo said:
117k cases in vaxed
151k cases in unvaxed
(With some unlinked)

They report 743 delta deaths out of 300k cases.

481 of those in vaxed.
253 in unvaxed.
That's due to the age differences between the vaxed and unvaxed cases. The unvaccinated group in this study is made up of (147612/151052) 97.7% people under the age of 50. In other words, it isn't the fact that people are surviving because they are unvaccinated (which really wouldn't make sense, and I think you could agree), it's the fact that the unvaccinated group is surviving because they are filled up of young people. I assume they prioritized vaccinating the older generation first in England, kind of like how we started off here in the States.

Enemigo said:


In the case of the delta variant in the UK, more people who are vaccinated are dying than those who aren't. That throws all the traditional encouragement to become vaccinated out the window doesn't it?
Per your data, people of the age 50 and older who are unvaccinated have a death rate of (205/3440) 5.9% when testing positive for delta strain covid. Vaccinated rate of death is (389/21472) 1.8%.
 

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Seems reasonable. Problem with Cherry picked data is that it's usually so vague it doesn't mean what the person presenting it wants. Still seems low enough to not lock down the country and not ruin the economy. My position is leaning very strongly toward Covid being just another thing to die from, but not a big enough deal to ruin life and start a civil war over.
 

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Yeah at this point I don't think anyone wants shutdowns. All I can really ask for is higher vaccination rates, and indoor mask mandates done by county based on when your local hospital capacity hits a certain threshold. Government should also issue N95's (the type that actually protect the user) to the vulnerable/elderly. Outdoor transmission is so rare that I'm not really worried about it at all. Keeping a couple surgical masks in my car and throwing one on before entering a store is the world's smallest inconvenience. None of these things I'm hoping for are should be that big of a deal and would save a lot of lives, but a lot of the public are passionate about anti-covid culture so we're just kind of stuck in a stalemate.
 

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I will say that I have to at least give covid some credit for being the reason I bought an Isuzu, now two. It was the 2020 shutdown boredom that led me to looking into project cars and just stumbled across the pickup by pure luck by filtering 4x4 + manual on offerup. Read through so many build threads in my spare time, giusedtobe's being the first one I stumbled upon. So thanks covid, and you guys, for getting me into an awesome hobby and getting to go on lots of cool adventures.
 

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vaccine passports are now mandated in my area....doesnt really bother me, the places asking for them , i dont use...but the way the law here has set up the rules, it plays to the favor of companies asking for your vaxx passport, and denying you service, or entry, if you dont have a passport, or negative test from the last 72 hours, some stating 24 hours...

so, if you dont want to abide by the vaxx passport rules, the business HAS to
1) limit the indoor capacity to 1/3 of the building fire code occupancy code
2) have distancing measures in place
3) provide hand sanitizer, and masks
4)perform contact tracing- ie, getting your name and phone# in case of a transmission incident

but, if you , as a business, demand the vax passport, you dont need to abide by these rules...you can deny unvaxxed, healthy people access, but let the people with their passports in, while it has been proven that vaxxed people are just guilty as spreading / receiving the covid.....

geez, my aunt is double vaxxed, thought she was immune to it, and 3 months later caught the covid....she figured that because she was vaxxed, that alot of the safety measures didnt apply to her...went about her daily life around town to different events, being bold about not wearing a mask, or keeping your distance from people, etc..

my local city of 55,000 has almost 700 cases as of yesterday...

i dont see how the ''passports'' will stop the transmission of this flu....it just forces people to get a shot that they may not believe in, just so they can be members of society, and not outcasts....
 

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Just to add to the reasons why I personally am choosing to not get the vaccine. I am not a danger to anyone else. I never see doctors for anything except prescription glasses and dental checkups. Covid has went through everyone around me. We have had personal contact/exposure with people who have had it. Most of them were mild, while one of the older members of our family needed oxygen for a few days, but is fine now. Between the kids, school, daycare, work, neighbors, friends, family, etc...if we aint dead yet, i dont think were gonna be. I have not felt like i had covid or tested positive thus far, not have my kids. we have had to deal with quarantining and ive missed countless days of work. i just simply feel like were fine, especially since some of the people i know who are vaccinated have had breakthrough cases and one of my coworkers is having to wear a heart monitor due to vaccine complications and another (female) is going through reproductive testing after the vaccine. Thats only 2 examples and i understand there are millions who are fine...i just dont feel like pressing my luck and messing with the immune system that has kept me alive this far into it...i do think people should stop arguing over it though. Dont let the government tear us apart. Its your belief more were vaccinated ? Okay, you have the right to feel that way. What you dont have the right to do is tell me I cant have my own beliefs.
 
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