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Enemigo said:
If the vaccine is as effective as touted, how is it selfish to not be vaccinated? Vaccinated people have nothing to worry about right?
This. Also what you said earlier about the fact that you cannot believe anything you read or hear anymore regardless of which side it comes from because its ALL been politicized. ANd just to be clear, I am NOT talking about the tinfoil hat crowd talking about "trackers" etc.

The bottom line is they DO NOT know that the drug is "safe and effective" , if they did it would be approved by the FDA. I am sorry if it offends anyone but it is criminally insane to administer this crap to children without more rigorous testing. A kid is more likely to die from pretty much every cause of death possible before covid.

Lastly, I have seen it widely reported that vaccinated people are not only carrying and spreading the virus but in many cases catching symptomatic covid. So tell me again why young people already exposed to covid or already recovered from covid should take an experimental vaccine??

If you are in a high risk population then by all means take the vaccine. The benefit probably outweighs the risk.

The dividing of Americans into opposing groups, covid ID's and trying to make unvaccinated people into pariah's or second class citizens is 100% political just like calling 73 million people that voted for Trump racist domestic terrorists.

In my opinion pretty much every government agency has been corrupted by politics. This includes the FDA & the CDC. Do you guys really trust Fauci?? The guy has had more positions than the worst politician.

Again these are my opinions. I understand that we all have varying opinions which I am glad we still have the freedom to express. I hope we can all get along when it comes to more important stuff like Isuzu's :lol:
 

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I've watched everyone point to the "others," whomever they may be, and accuse them of politicizing the vaccine. Lately, I've heard accusations of Republicans promoting vaccine hesitancy. My memory isn't as sharp as it once was, but I distinctly recall our current VP and President saying they weren't going to get the vaccine roughly this time last year, provided it was a "trump" vaccine. Fast forward a few months from that and now it's a forgone conclusion that there is no politicizing going on, except for "trumpers." And Trump was promoting vaccination. The whacky back and forth straight up makes me hesitant. I don't buy anything from anyone who had such erratic sales pitches.

Additionally, I've seen all the dick hard pill and blood pressure pill commercials on TV. Every single one has the fine print on the end that say who shouldn't take the medicine. Did we finally do it? Did we thread the needle and lawyers green lighted the liability clause exclusions? Perfectly fine for diabetics, those with high blood pressure, women who are pregnant, or may become pregnant? May cause bleeding or death. Ask your doctor if it's right for you. Nope, perfectly safe. Who are the people who shouldn't get the vaccine? Ever other drug has that demographic… again: did we finally do it!?

It's straight up weird that asking a questions brings about browbeating and talking to you like a child. I've been called names for asking questions and not simply nodding along. *******. Blue collar. Stupid. Uneducated. No one has answered any questions except to say, "perfectly safe for everyone!" I really wish I could be insulted into submission.

There was a time we sprayed kids with DDT, before it was considered a carcinogen. It was perfectly safe.

I'll give you a donut if you take any other drug pushed on TV. Doesn't that sound weird?
 

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Because I never actually stated it, I am not trying to change anyone's mind about how they feel about the vaccine, or get anyone to side with me. I just want to clear up reasons that actual people are hesitant to get the vaccine, because every argument I've heard is crafted from some BS narrative pushed by the media using some radical outlier argument that people assume is main stream. I've never heard of read an actual person who thinks there are microchips or trackers in the vaccine, yet that comes up in every conversation about it.

Anyway, I'll try a different angle to get my point across.

How come no one says that it's selfish if you don't get a flu shot? The flu spreads from person to person, and kills hundreds of thousands of people every year, and has done so every year since forever. Yet there is no social pressure for people to get a flu shot that tries to guilt people into getting the shot to help protect others.

A lot of people get the flu shot and it's not at all politicized People regularly talk openly about things like getting the shot, then all getting the flu, or how it's generally only effective for last year's strain, or how it makes you sick for a few days, but not as bad as the actual flu. But no one EVER says that people who don't get the shot are selfish, or stupid.

I've never had a flu shot, because I've never had the flu. I'm almost 40, and never had the flu. Why in the world would I go and get a flu shot knowing that there is only a down side? I only stand to lose. I could get the flu, I could get a mild sickness for a few days, etc. The best case scenario is that I don't get the flu, which is already my baseline.

So while I understand that Covid isn't the flu, and it certainly is not ebola either. It's a pretty tough road if someone is going to convince that I'm selfish for not getting vaccinated when I haven't had the virus. I see zero upside. Add in all the tribal, political BS and I'm out. Mask up and help flatten the curve, it's only two weeks! How long has it been now?
 

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Pfizer just got full FDA approval today. Even Trump himself is telling his following to get vaccinated.

Updating from my last post, gramps who was in the ICU with covid has passed away.

Edit: I'm off my break so I can write a longer response. I agree there is some hypocrisy when comparing it to the flu. Personally I get my shot every year, along with most if not all of my immediate family. The way it works (well, used to work) in hospitals is if you opt out of your flu shot you would have to wear a mask for the entire flu season. Covid is killing people magnitudes higher than the flu unfortunately. Average out the past 10 years of influenza deaths, ignoring last year, we're still looking at about 40,000 deaths per year in the United States, and that's a generous estimate. Covid killed 377,000 in 2020. That's almost 10x as many deaths even with shutdowns, distancing, sanitization and masks. Rona kicked my *** when I had it, it wasn't fun.
 

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Hope there's room here for some humor. Covid is serious business, but we occasionally need a break.
 

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Discussion Starter · #126 ·
Thanks Harry. Yes, definitely room for some humor here. Example: My M.I.L has it and WON'T pass. :D Dennis
 

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Skeletor said:
draw you own conclusions...boys & girls
None of your posts about the virus ever make sense. What's the point of posting cryptic drawings over and over? Either you have something to say or you don't. Telling people to interpret a child's drawing how they want, just makes you look like the type of "5G-causes-cancer-everything-is- related-to-agenda-21" kind of dude that I've been arguing doesn't even exist.
 

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Discussion Starter · #130 ·
Guarantee this: He ain't got the shot. :laughing3: Dennis
 

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Enemigo said:
Skeletor said:
draw you own conclusions...boys & girls
None of your posts about the virus ever make sense. What's the point of posting cryptic drawings over and over? Either you have something to say or you don't. Telling people to interpret a child's drawing how they want, just makes you look like the type of "5G-causes-cancer-everything-is- related-to-agenda-21" kind of dude that I've been arguing doesn't even exist.
And your posts do ? great, another self serving @#$%ing wind bag, who thinks he knows it all...You're a perfect fit for Biden and his stooges...speaking of 5G causes everything, that's your twisted fantasy, einstein...I can only imagine your incoming reply, no doubt, pure genius....some of us are shepherds, the rest are sheep..have a nice day...
 

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And there it is. Don't agree with me, then you're in X camp and I can treat you with disdain. Propaganda 101. If you completely dehumanize the opposing party, then you don't have to try and understand them, and better yet, don't have to explain your own stance. This works out because generally people who fall into this routine can't do either.

Need to end a conversation real quick because you can't support your stance? Throw out some insults, double down on your position and pretend any other opinions are just too dumb to be considered. Might as well have called me a racist.
 

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Enemigo said:
And there it is. Don't agree with me, then you're in X camp and I can treat you with disdain. Propaganda 101. If you completely dehumanize the opposing party, then you don't have to try and understand them, and better yet, don't have to explain your own stance. This works out because generally people who fall into this routine can't do either.

Need to end a conversation real quick because you can't support your stance? Throw out some insults, double down on your position and pretend any other opinions are just too dumb to be considered. Might as well have called me a racist.
actually, you're not smart enough to be considered a racist. some people have too much time on their hands...rocky mt high, indeed. I've wasted far too much time dealing with your replies...good day, sir.
 

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There's a lot more heat than light in this topic. ;) But I'd like to understand (you know, "To understand, rather than be understood").

These choices I think I DO understand:
1. Getting vaccinated...
2. NOT getting vaccinated, but isolating so as to keep it from affecting others...

But this one, I can't make sense of:
3. NOT getting vaccinated, but acting as if all is normal -- interacting with unsuspecting folks, and without so much as a warning.

Yet #3 seems to be popular. If someone can help me understand #3, without any tinfoil-hat stuff, I'd appreciate it.

Jack
 

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Skeletor said:
Enemigo said:
And there it is. Don't agree with me, then you're in X camp and I can treat you with disdain. Propaganda 101. If you completely dehumanize the opposing party, then you don't have to try and understand them, and better yet, don't have to explain your own stance. This works out because generally people who fall into this routine can't do either.

Need to end a conversation real quick because you can't support your stance? Throw out some insults, double down on your position and pretend any other opinions are just too dumb to be considered. Might as well have called me a racist.
actually, you're not smart enough to be considered a racist. some people have too much time on their hands...rocky mt high, indeed. I've wasted far too much time dealing with your replies...good day, sir.
How would you know? You haven't engaged with me, or anyone else on the topic. You've only been **** posting. Admittedly, I shouldn't have clowned your artistic ability because you don't have to be an artist to have a point; and you don't have to be good with words or have been the debate captain in order to have a firm belief or be correct in that belief. However, if you're going to put out an opinion and be taken seriously, a little effort on your part is required.
 

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JoeIsuzu said:
There's a lot more heat than light in this topic. ;) But I'd like to understand (you know, "To understand, rather than be understood").

These choices I think I DO understand:
1. Getting vaccinated...
2. NOT getting vaccinated, but isolating so as to keep it from affecting others...

But this one, I can't make sense of:
3. NOT getting vaccinated, but acting as if all is normal -- interacting with unsuspecting folks, and without so much as a warning.

Yet #3 seems to be popular. If someone can help me understand #3, without any tinfoil-hat stuff, I'd appreciate it.

Jack
Jack, that's exactly what I'm trying to convey, is how someone can practice #3 without just being purposefully obtuse or just dense. I've got to run at the moment, but I'll see if I can help flesh out the how's and why's of the way I feel later when I have the time. I'm not sure that I'm correct in the way that I feel, but being able to justify why is important to me. All too often we dig in to our opinions without investigating another perspective. I can easily pick any of the sides presented in this discussion thus far and pick up the argument and continue it without missing a beat. I wish we could all come at discussions from that perspective, sure would make things a lot more productive. Be back with you soon.
 

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Enemigo said:
JoeIsuzu said:
There's a lot more heat than light in this topic. ;) But I'd like to understand (you know, "To understand, rather than be understood").

These choices I think I DO understand:
1. Getting vaccinated...
2. NOT getting vaccinated, but isolating so as to keep it from affecting others...

But this one, I can't make sense of:
3. NOT getting vaccinated, but acting as if all is normal -- interacting with unsuspecting folks, and without so much as a warning.

Yet #3 seems to be popular. If someone can help me understand #3, without any tinfoil-hat stuff, I'd appreciate it.

Jack
Jack, that's exactly what I'm trying to convey, is how someone can practice #3 without just being purposefully obtuse or just dense. I've got to run at the moment, but I'll see if I can help flesh out the how's and why's of the way I feel later when I have the time. I'm not sure that I'm correct in the way that I feel, but being able to justify why is important to me. All too often we dig in to our opinions without investigating another perspective. I can easily pick any of the sides presented in this discussion thus far and pick up the argument and continue it without missing a beat. I wish we could all come at discussions from that perspective, sure would make things a lot more productive. Be back with you soon.
You've already explained it quite well for anyone that wants to listen and see another view point without thinking they are right and everybody else is wrong. I have to say again for the umpteenth time: vaccinated people are contracting and spreading corona virus. So Jack please please explain to us Cro magnon men how the vaccinated can can mix and mingle with a clear conscience while the unwashed have to be social pariahs?? Secondly since its only us cro magnon's unvaccinated why do you care if we all die due to our perceived (your perception not mine) stupidity?

Enemigo you probably agree with skeletor on this.......just sayin. And this:

And there it is. Don't agree with me, then you're in X camp and I can treat you with disdain. Propaganda 101. If you completely dehumanize the opposing party, then you don't have to try and understand them, and better yet, don't have to explain your own stance. This works out because generally people who fall into this routine can't do either.

Need to end a conversation real quick because you can't support your stance? Throw out some insults, double down on your position and pretend any other opinions are just too dumb to be considered. Might as well have called me a racist.
Is exactly how the left in this country has politicized and weaponized this virus just like every other issue they use to divide people. You agree with them and don't question any of their BS or you are an anti-science, back woods rube.
 

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Discussion Starter · #138 ·
:cry: Maybe we should all go back to driveline problems or other vehicles. I kind of thought we had moved to a lighter mood, then it got ugly (there's enough ugly in this world)
For the "pro vaccine camp", I thought of two "marketing" ideas they should have come up with other than scare tactics or "mandates"
1. (based on some of Nick's comments about all the warnings attached to other drugs) "Covid vaccine: warning - possible side effects - for an erection lasting more than..."
2. The other one, I just came up with today after hearing about the "Milk Crate Challenge"
They should come up with a Vaccine Challenge.

Dennis
 

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giusedtobe said:
I have to say again for the umpteenth time: vaccinated people are contracting and spreading corona virus. So Jack please please explain to us Cro magnon men how the vaccinated can can mix and mingle with a clear conscience while the unwashed have to be social pariahs?? Secondly since its only us cro magnon's unvaccinated why do you care if we all die due to our perceived (your perception not mine) stupidity?
As for the vaccinated mingling with a clear conscience -- I didn't suggest that at all. I was trying to summarize, for brevity. Vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus, although our most current data suggest the outcome for vaccinated people who get infected is generally less severe (that's not license to mingle and pretend it's all "normal").

And I did not suggest or even imply that anybody is stupid. I'd rather not anyone die. I said I want to understand viewpoint #3 -- because I can't fathom it at all. I'm actually hoping to hear something rational. I just haven't yet.

Jack
 

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And I hate to disagree with a fellow Memphian who I haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting face-to-face -- but this was from a now-locked but related thread:
Skeletor said:
It's your choice....take it...or don't take it. personal choice. not rocket science. of course, there are many within this forum, who would beg to disagree with my opinion, even try and belittle ....don't be a sheep , and follow the flock....then again, if you've done the research, and feel comfortable, then get the vaccine...it's your choice, and your body....despite what some people will tell you. good luck
When it only affects you, that's a personal choice. Maybe wearing a helmet motorcycling, or wearing your seat belt would fit that category.

When a choice affects others, it's no longer just personal, is it?

So for those who don't want the vaccine, but want to live as if all is normal, I just want to understand that viewpoint. I'm beyond trying to change minds--and I'm definitely not trying to belittle anyone.

Jack
 
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