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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
I'll try to snag a few pics soon. It doesn't look that much different yet. And as soon as I can hit the trails, there will be 4low porn for sure :)

IIRC, the 88+ 1st gens were roughly ~58" wide wms-wms, 2nd gens were around ~61" and the later wider ones were more like ~63". Factoring in wheel offset and wheel width and all that, you can be all over the place. If my calcs are right, my trooper with the stock 15x6's and 235/75's would have been ~65" measured to the outside of the tires. My current setup is more likely ~78-79" to the outside edges of the tires, so about 7" wider on each side. My total lift with body, suspension, and tires is probably around 11", but with 3 of those being body lift, my center of gravity is probably a little lower than that, probably 9.5" above stock. SO, by the "triangle" rule, i.e., 1" up should be balanced out by 1" wider each side to maintain stability, on paper, my rig is less stable than stock. But, the SAS and bigger tires/wheels make more of the weight unsprung, so it's probably about the same or not much worse. However, ideally, I want it to be MORE stable than a stock rig. What's the point in making something a little better in one area (ground clearance) and then lose out in another (stability)? That's mud truck mentality--go through some mud in a straight line fine, yay, but anything remotely off-camber and it's pucker factor 10.
 

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paulevans76 said:
I'll try to snag a few pics soon. It doesn't look that much different yet. And as soon as I can hit the trails, there will be 4low porn for sure :)

IIRC, the 88+ 1st gens were roughly ~58" wide wms-wms, 2nd gens were around ~61" and the later wider ones were more like ~63". Factoring in wheel offset and wheel width and all that, you can be all over the place. If my calcs are right, my trooper with the stock 15x6's and 235/75's would have been ~65" measured to the outside of the tires. My current setup is more likely ~78-79" to the outside edges of the tires, so about 7" wider on each side. My total lift with body, suspension, and tires is probably around 11", but with 3 of those being body lift, my center of gravity is probably a little lower than that, probably 9.5" above stock. SO, by the "triangle" rule, i.e., 1" up should be balanced out by 1" wider each side to maintain stability, on paper, my rig is less stable than stock. But, the SAS and bigger tires/wheels make more of the weight unsprung, so it's probably about the same or not much worse. However, ideally, I want it to be MORE stable than a stock rig. What's the point in making something a little better in one area (ground clearance) and then lose out in another (stability)? That's mud truck mentality--go through some mud in a straight line fine, yay, but anything remotely off-camber and it's pucker factor 10.
Now that you mention the numbers, it was around 63" factory Matt told me, and with the 2" spacers on each side, I've got 67"s of axle length. My biggest problem is that I'm running the aluminum cast wheels that have a horrible negetive offset. So, almost all of my 2" gain was (by center line spacing) taken away by the wheels themselves. If that makes any sense.

Sorry about the screwed up stats. I've not memorized much of the Zu stats tbh. Thanks for that recap though!
 

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I think mine with the offset wheels is around 78"s , better than it was with the other inset wheels for sure.. I think the other improvement was going with the aftermarket jeep coils , even without the shocks mounted the coils absorbed recoil big time !! Funny and sad thing I haven't had it out since :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Recent photos (had to fiddle with some of the photo editing filters and stuff...my camera lens on my phone is cracked and they come out hazy and crappy quite often)





 

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Man, That looks mean. I can't wait to see how awesome it'll be once you cut the body lift down. Very cool indeed.

impo I would look at getting the spare off the back door. Especially if you're going to use it off-road regularly, or your going to do major off-roading. In my experience, it always damages the hinges or latching mech, and even more so with an over sized tire. My Trooper back door leaks like a civ with the spare on, but is much better w/o it on there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
It looks pretty clean from a distance. There are quite a few rust spots around any glass that has ever been replaced (windsheild, rear side glass, etc) that I eventually have to do something about. Chicks may dig body damage, but tetanus is typically a bit of a turn off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Thanks!

I did the round headlight swap yesterday:


...but now I'm having some electrical gremlins, as detailed in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=78817 I think I may have goofed up some wiring or something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Electrical gremlins disappeared when I cleaned the terminals and cable clamps really well and sprayed some terminal protector on em.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
All I can do when I'm away for work is think about what I'm going to work on when I get back home.

I need to find a grill emblem...anyone know where to look? Couldn't find one on ebay. Reckon I should ask Jerry Lemond?

Other stuff I've been going over in my head:

Originally I wanted to just swap in a mildly built 3.4 and be done with the drivetrain. But, I REALLY hate that the MUA5 limits my front suspension travel so much with the short driveshaft. So I was thinking something along these lines:

3.4 > AR5 > trooper auto case

...like lorenzo's rodeo...although he has the 3.2, I *think* it also used the same bell pattern as the 60* V6's, so then I *think* it might work. He got a good 6" more driveshaft length in his application, and the shifters came right up through where the original ones were. The only thing I don't like about this swap is that 5th gear is a bit higher than the MUA5 (AR5 is .73 vs .8 on the MUA5, iirc) which really only MIGHT be a pain with a higher hp/tq engine...it also may throw my speedo farther off, if I could even get it hooked up. That and I'd have to drop some $$ on tera lows for the new case (or drop $$$$$$$ for an off the shelf geared case from Matt).

Another option could be a 4l30e/zu case swap from another trooper. I hear mixed reviews on that trans though.

Even more options are out there--I remember seeing a buggy on pirate4x4 that was running a GM 3.4 > tf999 > dana 300 using all factory parts. It really just comes down to figuring out: what is available, what is simple, and does it get me the extra driveshaft length I need without sacrificing durability and performance?

But the plot thickens, and things get more interesting when I see that geoffinbc writes that the 2.8 harness will work fine with a 4.3, as long as you use the 4.3 computer. Ahhhh. Now I'm looking at 4.3's with vortec heads, and an aftermarket intake that will adapt the 4.3 TBI set up. But then I gotta figure out what to run behind THAT! NV4500 would be awesome, but they are a pricey, and then mating up a dana 300 behind it is also pricey. One of the bulkier old new process cases may go on easier, but things start getting pretty heavy, and I think a dana 300 would probably work great and have lots of upgrade options. NV3500 would probably be fine, and might easily adapt to some other cases (maybe 231 crawl box to dana300 :cyclopsani: )

After all of that mental masturbation and bench-racing/web-wheeling, I'm remembering what it's like to have a 95% complete project sitting in the driveway, becoming more yard art than vehicle. I think ultimately I'll go with the 3.4, and then I'll rework some of the front suspension and steering to lower it a few more inches like I plan, which ought to at least allow me to more effectively use the 10" of travel I have up front. I can save my money for more axle bling right now, and take my time figuring out whether it's cost effective and worth it to go with a full on drivetrain swap.

Speaking of axle bling, I got ECGS to price out what it would cost to run a 35 spline ARB and 35 spline alloy inners in my rear rodeo dana 44, and holy chit. I knew the ARB and alloys would be pricey, but since there's nothing off the shelf to actually work with the rodeo dana 44, we'd have to put different ends on the housing and run different bearings and brakes. The price of doing all that was just as much as the 35 spline ARB and the shafts, so we are talking double the price some TJ,ZJ, or JK driver would need to pay. I would rather just find a wide track zu 12 bolt and throw in an ARB and 5.38's. (I personally think that the 12 bolt is a bit stronger than the dana 44 if we are comparing stock to stock, and honestly it feels a bit sacrilegious to not have a 12 bolt in a trooper...that's all I'm sayin'.)

And that wall of text is all I've got for right now. :mrgreen:
 

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If there's an arb third type 3 carrier which I'm sure there is you could go that rout.. I just put an air locker in chuffers trooper so they still make them as well... A devorced t case would fit the trooper nicely , something to concider...
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Good point on the divorced case...I definitely have been considering it. OTT made an adapter for a divorced yota case, but they apparently went out of biz a few years back. The Nissan t100 case would probably work, and tera used to make a low range set, but their website doesn't show any of their old stuff like that anymore. I'd have to get really lucky to find some. I don't know how confident I'd be in modifying the MUA5 case to remove the front output, patch the hole, and expect it to hold up.

Right now, while searching for more info on adapting stuff, I finally stumbled back upon one of Greg55_99's epic bellhousing/adapter threads (http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740) and it has me thinking I could throw a rock in the junkyard, and whatever I hit I could probablymake it work :D
 

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I think with a 205 you can snake underneath the existing .. Even if it requires a pillow block the shaft will be right in line with the pinion ... That's my plan anyway, I've got the 95 auto tcase 2:66:1 low drive ratio ( $65 for used ) into a 2:1 and your down in the 5:38:1 ratio range.. With the trooper you have room to spare and can nice it back a few more inches to get the best of front and rear lengths !!

The amigo in the other hand has the gas tank in the way so I haven't takled that project yet..
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
After going through Greg55_99's thread a few times, I'm leaning toward a 3.4 > 88-99 jeep 2.5 ax5 bell > toyota w56 > dual toyota cases....there are plenty of dudes selling toyota stuff around here. Sent him a PM over at pirate, so we'll see if I can get more info on input shaft/flywheels/ etc compatibility.
 

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I don't think the ar5 bell has the 60* bolt pattern.
I think the mua5 is the only one that had both the 3.2 and the 60* V6 pattern on it.
I have a pic of both somewhere....

Looking at your options, same thoughts come to mind as when I had to get mine figured out.
The only thing I can say is focus on sustainability and ease of getting replacements if you need to or be prepared to cut your losses.
I went 3.2 -> AR5 -> auto T-case because of costs and ease of getting it all together and replacement factor.
There are tons of Zu's in yards these days and If i had the time (and help) I would have pulled an AR5 the other day.
Anyhow, I thought about the Yota route but the costs kept jamming me up. The adapter and dual cases is almost identical to gearing one down and don't forget a right side drop adapter.
I could have ran Curtis' setup with the Yota trans and input shaft re-jiggering (as you say) with the Ar5 bell and had all Toyota stuff behind it.
May as well buy his rig at that point :)

If you're talkin about the 2.5 bell and yota stuff behind that, that sounds like a good plan if all the computer stuff works out, the rest is all sustainable and you have the length you need for a decent front driveline. Plus you have the low-low gearing in the axles, its gonna be silly slow.

Can't wait to wheel with ya.
I'm thinking about heading out in Nov-Dec sometime to URE, we should catch up.
I want to see your 'gremlins' and do-dads you got to work out over time.
And glad to see the Zu still in the family.
 
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