[BillB_22]

I am new to this although I use this website alot, this is my first post. I recently cleaned the throttle body on my Rodeo and after I finished cleaning it I started the engine to see if everything was still in good shape. (It was) The next morning I started it and heard the loudest knocking I have ever heard. But the knock would go away at 2200 RPM but it always came back. I started removing all the belts and my goal was the timing belt replacement. I got to the tensioner and found the top bolt had worked its way out and the bottom bolt was finger tight. So, now I am thinking the timing belt had jumped a notch or two, So, now I need help to locate the original positions of the marks and any help that I can get to get me back on the road again. If anyone has pics that would be great.

Thanks in advance

Bill

 

[JimD]

see if this link works http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroke ... 183e89.jsp

 

[BillB_22]

I looked and can't determine where they are pointing, I've looked at the back cover and the outside cover on both sides and still can't seem find the marks. Whats bad is I have a Haynes but... well, I can't seem to find it.

 

[JimD]

Is it the cam gears your having a hard time finding the marks? Cleaned the area good with some solvent (carb cleaner etc) and a rag to see if they show up?

 

[BillB_22]

Hi Jim,

I just notced that you are from WV, My girlfriend and I are from WV we currently live in Va. (Boone County for both of us) Now back to the timing thing. Yes it is the cam gears that I am looking for, I saw an indention on the right side but couldn't find anything on the left side I think the crank will be a little easier. I am still trying to figure if this is SOHC or DOHC.

Thanks

Bill

 

[JimD]

That first link didnt give a very good discription, this one shows you better.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroke ... 183f94.jsp

By the way, Im just outside of Oak Hill.

 

[BillB_22]

Is the year of the vehicle that differentiates the SOHC and DOHC, and what is meant by NON-interference. Are the timing marks for the cam gears located on the outside of the timing cover? this is where I am getting lost in locating these things. There is nothing to show specifically where these marks are.

I have a friend that lives in the Oak Hill area, I know Oak Hill and just outside of Oak Hill is a pretty big place and I reall y don't expect you to know this name but what the heck it might be worth a shot. His name is Tim Cale, he is a College instuctor at WV(U) tech in Montgomery.

Thanks again for the help, I will see what I can do with this thing.

 

[bigpoppax2]

Hey I went to WVIT, well it changed to WVUIT while I was there.

I've lived in Charleston, Beckley, and now I'm down here in Bluefield.

Nice to see some more people on here that are somewhat local.

Joe

 

[JimD]

I live on Gatewood road about 2 miles outside of Oak Hill. Dont recognize your friends name though. Interference engine means if your timing belt would break while its running, the pistons and valves will make contact, causing LOTS of damage and cost mucho bucks to fix. Thats why there is a manufacturer recommended change interval for those timing belts. If your engine is a SOHC, you should see only one camshaft on top of the head, DOHC will mean there are actually 2 cams, one usually for the exhaust and one for intakes. The marks should be right at the edge of the cam gear on the block or plate behind the gear. Sometimes they are VERY subtle, but yours should be visible. You may even need to pull the radiator out.

 

[BillB_22]

Hi Joe,

I was there at WVIT / WVUIT during this transition, I have an Associates in Electrical Engineering Technology and My degree shows its from WVIT and I have a Bachelors in Electronic Eng. Tech. and this degree has WVUIT on it. Nice to hear from you..

Bill

 

[BillB_22]

Hi Jim,

I read an article here somewhere about the differences the interference and non inter. There seems to be some confusion about 95 Rodeo's one says they are interference and some say they aren't. I do know that mine is making a lot of noise (until you get to 2200 RPM) then the nosie goes away. I found my Haynes manual, and I am starting to understand the timing mark thing. But, it seems when I line up the left cam with the belt the right cam is like 9 notches past the mark (telling me that I am either not TDC or that the belt has slipped. Is it possible for the "Pusher" on the tensioner to lose its strength and allow the belt to have a lot of slop, causing it to slip like this. OR do you think the belt may be worn and stretched. (or combination of both)

IF the timing is not quite right and the belt actully slipped, how can I determine TDC of the cams and the crank to try to align thi smess back up? should I try removing #1 spark plug and use a dowell rod to see when it is all the way up? and how can I tell what where the other cam should be?

I know a lot of questions, but this problem is definately a learning experience for me. Thanks a lot.

 

[JimD]

Very possible the tensioner has lost its ability to keep tension, if any doubts, go ahead and replace it with a new belt and look where the tensioner contacts the tension pully, make sure since you had a bolt come loose the contact area is not damaged. Put your crank on the mark and dont roll the cams or cam all the way around, just run them backward or forward back to the marks. Then install the belt. Unless you have to remove the cam gears, which you wont, you should be aligned. If one is that many teeth off, just double and triplle check you have the right marks, and set it. It helps to use some paper clips, those bigger steel ones that hold a bunch of papers that you sqeeze and clamp on, to clip the belt on the cam gears to hold it in place. I think one of the links showed this, not sure now, but I have 6or 7 of them in my tool box that I keep just for this. Once you get the belt on, and the tensioner in place and released, roll the engine over a couple times and recheck your marks, using the crank bolt not one of the cam gear bolts.
You said alot of questions, I dont care how long you work on these things, your gonna have questions everyday.

 

[BillB_22]

HI again Jim and I want to thank you for your patience, I put the belt on and aligned with what marks I could find. (looks like little dimples on the back of the timing belt cover) one is about 11 oclock position and the other is about 3. I then rotated the the crank like you said the first time and the timing mark had moved one tooth off of the mark, I then rotated it the 2nd time and it's about 5 teeth off the original position. I continued to rotate and it gets farther away from the original marks, I am continuing to rotate it in hopes that it will eventually align again and so far I am not having any luck with it. (Is the timing mark on the belt supposed to move like this?)

What I wanted to try is remove #1 spark plg intert a dowel rod then rotate the crank till the crank mark aligns properly on the bottom and the dowel rod is all the way out. This should tell me if I am TDC or 180 out. <~~~ am I correct to assume this? then I can look and see where the cam timing marks are located.

I will try this and let you know what I come up with.

 

[JLEMOND]

HI again Jim and I want to thank you for your patience, I put the belt on and aligned with what marks I could find. (looks like little dimples on the back of the timing belt cover) one is about 11 oclock position and the other is about 3. I then rotated the the crank like you said the first time and the timing mark had moved one tooth off of the mark, I then rotated it the 2nd time and it's about 5 teeth off the original position. I continued to rotate and it gets farther away from the original marks, I am continuing to rotate it in hopes that it will eventually align again and so far I am not having any luck with it. (Is the timing mark on the belt supposed to move like this?)

What I wanted to try is remove #1 spark plg intert a dowel rod then rotate the crank till the crank mark aligns properly on the bottom and the dowel rod is all the way out. This should tell me if I am TDC or 180 out. <~~~ am I correct to assume this? then I can look and see where the cam timing marks are located.

I will try this and let you know what I come up with.

HI BI

HI BILL LINE UP THE CAM MARKS LIKE YOU HAVE , BUT FIRST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT YOU HAVE A SOHC ENG AND IT IS A NON INTERFERENCE ENG, AND YES THE BELT CAN JUMP IF THE TENSIONER IS LIKE YOU DESCRIBED , THE ONLY THING THAT GETS HURT IS YOUR PRIDE, SET THE CRANK SHAFT KEYWAY POINTING AT THE 3 0CLOCK POSITION, THIS ENG LEAD CYL IS NO 2 AND EVEN THEN AT THE 3.OCLOCK POSITION THE PISTION IS NOT AT TDC, IT IS DOWN A BIT IN THE HOLE ,NO 2 IS THE FRT DRIVERS SIDE , THERE ARE MARKS ON THE TIMING BELT TO HELP YOU LINE EVERYTHING UP HOWEVER THE MARKS ON THE BELT ON THE BOTTOM PULLEY ARE OPPOSITE FROM THE KEYWAY KINDA OF SCREWY BUT THAT IS THE WAY THEY ARE , NOT RALLLY NECC TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE BELT MARKS JUST THE PULLEY MARKS ON TOP AND ON THE BOTTOM , LACE THE BELT ON STARTING FROM THE DRV SIDE UP AND OVER AND UNDER THE WTR PUMPAND THEN AROUND THE TENSIONER AND THEN RELEASE THE TENSIONER ACTUALLY CALLED A HYDRAULIC PUSHER , THAT PUSHES AGAINST THE BELT ROLLER AND LOCK IT ALL DOWN , NOW IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO ROTATE THE ENG AROUND CLOCKWISE ONLY A COUCPLE OF TIME AND BRING THE KEY WAY BACK TO 3.0CLOCK AND CHECK YOUR TP CAM MARKS , IF THEY LINE UP YOU ARE IN BUSINESS,, THE BELT MARKS WILL THROW YOU OFF HERE THEY CAN BE ANYWHERE AND NOT LINE UP AT ALL THE RASON THIS IS CALLED A WALKING BELT , MEANING THEROTICALLY IT WILL TAKE MANY MANY REVOLUTIONS TO EVER HIT THE SAME SPOT AGAIN , IT MAKES THE BELT LAST LONGER INSTEAD OF CREATING A GIVEN WEAR PATTERN JERRY

 

[BillB_22]

removed cause it didnt make any sense when it posted... see below

 

[BillB_22]

Well, that was not what I expected: Piston is reference to #1 cylinder

Crank Pin rt |0 turns| Piston: Down|Lt Cam: 9:30| Rt Cam: 3:00|
Crank Pin lt |.5 Turn| Piston: Up |Lt Cam: 12:30|Rt Cam: 6:30|
Crank Pin rt |.5 Turn| Piston: Down|Lt Cam: 4:00|Rt Cam: 10:30|
Crank Pin lt |.5 Turn| Piston: Up |Lt Cam: 6:30|Rt Cam: 12:30|
Crank Pin rt |.5 Turn| Piston: Down|Lt Cam: 9:30|Rt Cam: 3:00|

If that makes any sense. I expected when the crank is placed in the position shown in the book, that would be TDC. This is not the case. These marks seems to cooperating at this point but I still hear a knock when I manually turn the crank. I heard this before and it seems to be coming from the tensioner and or the pusher. Any suggestions?

 

[BillB_22]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the input and assitance, between you and Jim I think I have it figured out and hopefully when I try to to start it again the exhaust doesn't blow smoke rings. I have gone through the complete turns as you can see above, 2 complete rotations of the crankshaft gets you back to the correct timing marks. Thanks again for the information on the the SOHC and the non interference engine I was afraid that I totally messed up the engine when I tried to start it. I will attempt starting this monster in the morning or maybe not, I still have a knock I need to track down.

Bill

 

[JimD]

Jerry gave you much better instructions than I did, and if you just go slow, you'll do a fine job. I had forgotten about the cyl numbering being different.

 

[BillB_22]

I know one thing after all this, I will have pictures on what to look for.

We'll see if this fixes the knock.

Thanks for the help

Bill

 

[BillB_22]

Well, I got it back together, and it's running now (thats better than I had before). I was hoping that the loose pusher was the problem, but thats not the case it's still knocking. To give you an idea of what it sounds like, Do you remember when you would put a playing card on the frame of your bike and into the spokes and the wheel made that noise? well, if you have you know what I am talking about. But this is the noise I hear but a little louder (about the same speed to) but it sounds like it's coming from the pusher area, any other suggestions?