Isuzu SUV Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Allow me to share my expensive and frustrating lessons learned after having to fix the mistakes made by a commercial engine re-builder. I purchased a 6VD1 long block not long ago and after a mere 6,800 it blew a head gasket and hydraulically locked cylinder #3. After removing the engine from the vehicle, I began the tear-down and wanted to determine the cause of the failure. I carefully measured the EXISTING torque on all the head bolts of both banks with a precision strain-gauge torque wrench and found that the majority of the bolts were way below the specified torque value of 47 Ft. Lb. for both the M11x1.5 and the M8x1.25 bolts. Some bolts were as low as FIVE Ft. Lb.!! These are not TTY (Torque to Yield bolts).

I was flaming mad that the engine builder could not get these critical fasteners installed correctly and that I was having to fix their sloppy workmanship. However, I soon found out perhaps one important clue why the assembly failed. The company I bought the long block from sent me a new set of gaskets and new head bolts. As with a lot of things these days, it was all made in China.

After making sure there were no bent connecting rods and/or valves (since there was a hydraulic lock up) I proceeded to reassemble the heads to the engine block. It is important to note here that my Isuzu factory manual clearly states to (a) use new head bolts and (b) do not oil the threads of the bolts when installing them. So like any good mechanic, I followed the book verbatim.... and that's when the problems started.

After making sure that both the block decks on both banks were spotless, wiped down with denatured alcohol and compressed air dried, I installed the head gaskets, head bolts and proceeded to start my torque up procedure. After getting to less than half of the required 47 Ft. Lb I started experiencing what's called "Thread Seizing" or "Cold Welding". This is where the fasteners hang-up and stick, then suddenly break free only to repeat this sticking as the bolts keep tightening. The reality is that after one or two of these sticking events, you have no freaking idea what the torque value is on your bolt. The torque wrench might say 47 Ft. Lb. but that's only because the bolt is frozen or stuck in position due to "cold welding". The bolt is actually well below that shown value.

I was not about to have another head gasket failure so I took the whole assembly apart to find out what was going on. Of course, once you've clamped down a head gasket, you can't re-use it. So I purchased a set of Felpro head gaskets locally....And that's when I got yet another lesson in how Chinese made stuff is often such a lower quality than what's made elsewhere. The Felpro head gaskets were made in Germany and the level of difference in quality compared to the Chinese gaskets was astounding! I was actually glad I had to take the heads off.

So once again, I cleaned and started to reassemble the heads to the block, following the Isuzu factory manual's instructions. And once again I encountered the "thread seizing" issue after being well under the final torque of 47 Ft. Lb. The only logical solution was to say to hell with the Isuzu instructions in this case and oil both the bolt threads and the bolt heads (which have attached hardened flat washers) with 10W-30. Lo and behold.... every bolt goes to full torque with no seizing or cold welding! I realized that the engine builder I bought this from probably had the same issues but didn't attempt to correct the problem and simply let this engine go out to a customer. That fact together with a low quality head gasket pretty much guaranteed that this engine was going to have a failure.

The engine has been successfully running now for ~ 100 miles with no issues. So the lessons I learned and wanted to pass along is that (a) There are often huge differences in quality based on who makes a part and where it's made. So when it comes to critical items like head gaskets, etc. buy the highest quality parts you can afford. And (b) the Isuzu factory information, while certainly your best resource for reliable information .... sometimes leads you astray and it's up the mechanic to be the final quality "inspector" to be sure the job is done correctly.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,694 Posts
We need more manufacturing back to USA for parts. Nice read about the Chinese parts and the oiling of the head bolts.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,320 Posts
Way too many bad experiences with "dry" assembly - especially aluminum and steel, but also with stainless steel (nuts and bolts). Aluminum tends to pull threads out of aluminum part and stainless galls / seizes (often breaking the bolt). Chase threads with appropriate tap, clean male fasteners, oil on aluminum / steel (head bolts) and antiseize on everything else. Dennis
 
  • Like
Reactions: gb89amigo

· Registered
Joined
·
1,672 Posts
totten said:
We need more manufacturing back to USA for parts. Nice read about the Chinese parts and the oiling of the head bolts.
Totten,

What do you suppose it will take for our leaders to make this sort of thing happen? Do they care? Just asking!

Cheers,

GB
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
My understanding is the head bolts are TTY. I'd think this is the reason the bolts can not be reused.

My understanding of not oiling the threads was partially that the lubricant modified (reduced) the specified torque value.

The other reason I'd understood is the oil could act as a sealant on the threads. The theory was the air below the bolt could compress - either causing the bolt to tighten prematurely or possibly even cracking the area where the air is being compressed.

I dunno. For me I used a very light coating of motor oil on the 6VE1 and 6VD1 head bolts I installed with no issues. I did stop at ~ 45 as opposed to the specified 47 to account for not installing them dry.

As to the Chinese - my .02 is they typically make exactly what they are contracted to make.
 

· Registered
1989 Trooper R/S
Joined
·
4,568 Posts
As to the Chinese - my .02 is they typically make exactly what they are contracted to make.
vanduker Zu Royalty Posts: 1556Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:14 pmLocation: Edmond, OKHas thanked: 3 timesHave thanks: 42 times

I'll second that one. I've used Clearwater heads twice, and I understand they come from China. If these American companys will stop trying to drain every last buck out of us, and contract with what materials are to be used and how to use them, there's no reason they can't produce a suitable product. And it's not only after market car parts, but darn near every thing from there.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,694 Posts
Not everyone can go to college. Need to have more trade schools for students coming out of high school. Pay a living wage and more will come in. I'm german, they use to have best made parts in the world. Not today. FOR GB89AMIGO, Tony :idea:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
vanduker said:
My understanding is the head bolts are TTY. I'd think this is the reason the bolts can not be reused.
vanduker: I'd have to respectfully disagree that these are TTY bolts. Here's a great technical article on the subject: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2005/07 ... -bolt-use/

About 1/2 way down the article it states: "How can you tell TTY head bolts from ordinary head bolts? TTY head bolts are typically longer and narrower than standard head bolts. Factory service manuals will tell you which applications use TTY bolts, and you can often tell from the head bolt tightening procedure if the bolts are TTY or standard. TTY bolts typically have an angle tightening specification rather than a specific torque value (which requires using an angle gauge when tightening the bolts). The torque procedure for tightening a TTY head bolt involves tightening it until a certain torque reading is reached. Then the bolt is given an additional turn to a specified angle (say an additional 45 to 90 degrees) to load the bolt beyond its yield point for maximum clamping pressure."

The Isuzu factory manual does not mention or specify any angle tightening requirements. So unless I'm totally missing something, this would rule out a TTY head bolt in a 6VD1 engine.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
You make a good point. If you do a search here on the forum a lot of people use the term TTY. Doesn't make it the case. I'd agree I've had other head bolts that did specify an angle after the initial torque and the shop manual does not show that for these motors. Is likely my own ignorance of thinking "non reusable = TTY."

Thanks for the correction.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
itsmehb said:
As to the Chinese - my .02 is they typically make exactly what they are contracted to make.
vanduker Zu Royalty Posts: 1556Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:14 pmLocation: Edmond, OKHas thanked: 3 timesHave thanks: 42 times

I'll second that one. I've used Clearwater heads twice, and I understand they come from China. If these American companys will stop trying to drain every last buck out of us, and contract with what materials are to be used and how to use them, there's no reason they can't produce a suitable product. And it's not only after market car parts, but darn near every thing from there.
Given they can crank out millions of relatively complex devices (phones, televisions) making even the worlds greatest head gasket would seem akin to having Michelangelo paint your house. I mean he could do the job
but if you tell him to use the cheapest possible materials seems likely even he couldn't turn out a good product. LOL

I blame the consumer (to include myself at times). Spend some time at a parts counter. Need brake pads for a 1999 Silverado? We have the house brand for 9.99, Wagner for 19.99, EBC for 29.99 and Brembo for 59.99. Which one do you think 90% of the buyers are going to choose?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,672 Posts
totten said:
Not everyone can go to college. Need to have more trade schools for students coming out of high school. Pay a living wage and more will come in. I'm german, they use to have best made parts in the world. Not today. FOR GB89AMIGO, Tony :idea:
Tony,
Thanks for your comment! It, no doubt take someone far smarter than I to make a persuasive business case to enable trade schools to become so attractive to potential gearheads/machinists/fabricators, that the so intrigued young person would be flocking to said schools! Perhaps we will have to see what EY 2020 will bring us!
Funny, I'm of German descent too!

Cheers,

GB
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top