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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone,
just got back from URE and got the diesel bug bite. Waynes Trooper is nuts, even with open diffs. anyway, a friend of mine (does my paint work) has a connection in NJ for JDM importing. hes bought FIVE nissan skyline/fairlady motors from these guys and he told me they can ORDER 1/2 clips. price is unknown, but hes in Brazil right now on a business trip. when he gets back, hes picking up my tonneau cover for my tacoma up to color match it, with that we are going to head over to this place and ill personally talk to them about it. Im gauging who MIGHT be interested in 1/2 clips or just driveline (motor/trans). Also talking to Jerry Lemond about this at URE. ill get prices, see what we can do. Maybe Jerry can get an order together, but it takes a few months to get things inline and over here regardless on who gets the order. IF we do just drivelines, i can deliver to the south (NC or along that route) for a fee. like i said, im putting out feelers. im getting one (unknown when), but if we get more, might be cheaper per unit and POSSIBLY Bighorn hood scoops ;)

i should know more in a couple weeks after i get back from SEMA in Las Vegas. post if you show interest. there will be a deposit needed IF this goes through. 1/2 cuts are through the windshield posts and floor behind front seats. should be RIGHT HAND DRIVE dashboards and all wiring. ;)

thanks and let me know
Ron
 

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I would be interested because I love diesels. However, I thought the 2.8 was the better engine...I'm probably wrong though. Can you educate me a little bit on the 3.1?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
better? idk....the 3.1L has more torque and the filter location is better from what i got from Jerry at URE. i doubt it would effect cost greatly but i guess since its a custom order, i'd THINK it would be open for discussion and availability
 

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Another diesel lover here, I'm in for "probably interested"

Driveline-only would be easier to take home, is there an advantage to get a clip other than the hood scoop?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
mounts, frame section, suspension spares, front axle (ooooooooooo maybe 5.38s LOL!!)....i dont know for sure but the 3.1L MIGHT have an electric injection pump. seen it on more then one forum. just more there to mess around with, spares and RHD dash ;) ...also the structure will protect the engine better. some of the intercoolers from the last buy were damaged. fan blades break, oil pans crushed etc...all can be damaged. they are not easy with these parts. Instrument clusters so you KNOW (hopefully) how many miles are actually on the driveline....for a few hundred more, id go for that. i have to see, but im gauging interest only right now.
Ron
 

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UK being predominantly diesels only we have loads of these engines lying in scrap yards.

Anyways a few pointers on these engines. They are basically exactly the same as the earlier 2.8 diesel with very few differences. Unless yu know what your looking for it is very very easy to mistake the two.

1) The 3.1 is essentially a longer stroked version of the 2.8. This gave it more torque.
2) The injectors were different. Quite a bit. I don't know why they changed them, but I would guess to be more efficient.
3) They had a higher output turbo. Same to look at but gave a bit more oomph.
4) The Bosch VE fuel pump on the 3.1 is the same as the 2.8 EXCEPT for the post 1995 automatic transmission "Bighorns" (Japanese market versions were called Bighorns). These Bighorns had an electronic fuel pump also made by Bosch and also called a VE. Again I don't know why they had them, and you should be able to retrofit the original VE mechanical fuel pump. All other makes and models of 3.1 Troopers and Bighorns had the mechanical VE pump.
5) The top mounted intercooler is again the same as the 2.8.
6) The combination of the higher output turbo and larger capacity gave the 3.1 around 127BHP (as compared to the 112bhp of the Turbo Intercooled 2.8), though here in the UK there are loads of people fitting a boost controller and upping the fueling on the pump and achieving the same power output. In fact Vauxhall (UK OPEL) fitted the 2.8 to the Frontera (read Wizard) and subbed out the Isuzu specified turbo for the 3.1 turbo, added a front mounted intercooler and instantly achieved the same power output of the Izusu 3.1. I wouldn't be surprised if they also adjusted the fuel pump to match the turbo.
7) The extra gains in power and torque had the obvious damage to fuel comsumption. A nicely running stock 3.1 in the Mk.II and Mk.III Trooper would return around 27 MPG if driven carefully. My stock 2.8 4JB1TC achieves 35 MPG regularly and in the Mk.I (Trooper II) can keep up with its later model sisters. I am lighter than the newer models giving me an instant advantage.
8 ) The 2.8 oil filter mount had the filter screw in from above. The 3.1 had the filter screw in from below at an angle. This was to give the exhaust and turbo more clearance The Mk.I (Trooper II) had a bit more room at the back near the bulkhead than later models for some reason so a reposition was needed. Vauxhall on the Frontera also adopted the 3.1 oil filter mount as it had even less room in the bay than the Trooper. I once spoke to a chap who was involved in the project of fitting the 2.8 diesel into the Frontera and making the changes to suit Vauxhall. He said it was probably the hardest job he was involved in due to the cramped spaces in the engine bay. Main reason being they went away from the TMIC to a FMIC.
9) All ancillaries except those mentioned above are interchangable with the 2.8 diesel.
10) The 3.1 if looked after will last you years and years. Its as realiable as the 2.8 from my experience so long as you keep on top of its oil changes and being a diesel I would recommend around the every 5000 mile mark. Diesels are dirty engines and the oil cokes up quickly and the basic design of the 2.8 is now well over 30 years old so not as refined as modern engines so the oil gets dirty real quick.
11) Best bit about the 3.1 ... no electrics. It is all mechanics ... and big old chunky old school engineering at that .. the best kind.

If you have any other questions I will keep an eye on this thread and hopefully I can answer them for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you Rhanagar. i knew about the oil filter, one of the PLUSES i thought...and the more power :) . the electric pump concerns me, is it ONLY the automatics???? if we import from Japan, Indonesia, or Europe, its not that much different. do you have ANY contacts over in the UK for exporting??? we are looking about 2200/2800 (driveline/ half cuts) for EACH including import duties and shipping. One thing i can be accused of is, over informing myself before purchasing something. i learn as much as i can to be schooled and informed. hopefully more people will interject questions. Rhanagar, thank you again for the info!!!! i want one for a Pickup TF model (simular front clip/suspension to the Vauxhall Frontera (Isuzu Rodeo SUV in the US).
Ron
 

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Yes, thank you Rhanagar! I'd love to get my hands on a Frontera... so many nice options available. :)

I was looking through this Isuzu/Vauxhall factory service manual (If anyone wants this PDF, I'll email it to ya)
The specs seem to say that the 2.8 is Direct Injection, whereas the 3.1 switched to Indirect Injection.
Is this true? It would explain the injector difference since IDI's use a pre-chamber

Relevant info from the manual:

4JB1T
Direct Injection
Bore: 93mm
Stroke: 102mm
Displacement: 2771cc
Compression Ratio: 18.1:1
Weight: Approx. 250kg / 550lb
Injection nozzle type: Hole with 5 orifices

4JG2T
Indirect Injection
Bore: 95.4mm
Stroke: 107mm
Displacement: 3059cc
Compression Ratio: 20.0:1
Weight: Approx. 267kg / 588.7lb
Injection nozzle type: Throttle

Ron: I'm also guilty of "way too much research" :lol: Just hope this stuff isn't cluttering up your group buy thread
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
lagwagon said:
Ron: I'm also guilty of "way too much research" :lol: Just hope this stuff isn't cluttering up your group buy thread
not at all. the more info , the better everyone would feel. sent out an email to an exporter in Canada about pricing. been working on my pickups since i got back from URE.
 

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Great info above. I'd love to do this in one of my trucks. I've spent sometime on the trail with Wayne. I'd love to do the grease car conversion as well. On the last group buy thread he put up some great links to conversions on other threads that have links to other threads ect. Info overload. One of those site is one where lot's of folks are makeing bobbed 4x4 Isuzu npr pick-ups! They use dana 60 SAS front axles. around here used NPRs are cheap and plentiful. No you can't put that big motor in a Trooper but cool stuff anyway.

My problem here is that with a diesel conversion I would have to keep my Truck historic registered. Max 7,500 miles a year and not legal as a DD. Md won't let you do a diesel conversion on a smogged car and DD it.
 

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To be honest I am unsure about the injector change. All I do know is the mechanical pump was used on all 4JG2 engines except for the one mentioned above.

Just to confirm. The electronic fuel pump was only ever used on post 1995 Bighorn automatics. All badged Troopers, badged Bighorn manual transmissioned, and badged pre-1995 Bighorn automatics used the mechanical pump. Now this is what I have been led to believe from a mate of mine who started importing the Trooper since their inception here in the UK. He knows almost every nut and bolt. When Vauxhall put the 2.8 into the Frontera they also used the Trooper manual gearbox as well. Any vehicle that currently holds either a 4JB1 or 4JG2 can hotswap between the two engines with no modification needed unless you have that electronic fuel pump, but even then you will find that your mechanical fuel pump will transfer accross with no issues.

You also have to remember while the 3.1 is on paper more powerful, Vauxhall put the 2.8 into their cars. They used the 3.1 turbo, and ditched the top mounted intercooler in favour of a front mounted intercooler. These changes increased the power of the 2.8 to near enough the same power of the 3.1 (I think only a couple of bhp in it). That was the only changes they made as far as I can tell. They used the 2.8 injectors and mechanical fuel pump.

Another thing to remember is that the Isuzu TF of that era, Chevrolet Brava, and Vauxhall Brava were all fitted with the 2.8.

One more thing to be aware of some 2.8's (and 3.1's I would assume) ditched the cambelt in favour of timing gears. These versions were only found in hotter climates like Africa, though I do know of someone who has a gear driven Chevrolet Brava 2.8 here in the UK. Isuzu and the rest of the GM equivalents it seems also suffer from the "what do we have left ... oh chuck it in anyway" fate.

I will keep updating this thread as I remember things.
 

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The specs seem to say that the 2.8 is Direct Injection, whereas the 3.1 switched to Indirect Injection.
That is correct.
The Trooper 2.8 4jb1 non intercooled was around 96bhp stock.

The Frontera 2.8 4jb1 came in with 113bhp as stock but a 1/8turn on the fuel pump gives it a bit more kick along with removing the EGR valves and taking all the restricting devices from the exhaust and cold start devices (still starts fine at -10) :wink:
 

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Just remember Drift that in the USA they are not allowed to remove the EGR's I believe ... mind if removed and blanked I am sure no one would be the wiser :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Rhanagar said:
Just remember Drift that in the USA they are not allowed to remove the EGR's I believe ... mind if removed and blanked I am sure no one would be the wiser :D
most states dont have emission testing on diesels. NJ doesnt but NOT sure if a swap is taken into consideration....but more info the better!!! thanks guys!
 

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when getting a engine and trans thats 100% non computer ized.
i just dont see the need for the half cut, unless its much cheaper than the last $5,500 quote i got :(
0.01C

if you wanted a auto trans or a comuterized 3.1L or newer engine then yea, but other wize no.
they use normal 12V glows so i don't see an issue with that wiring.
if it was the 5V QOS that the 2.2L has oh boy....that would be quite the home made wiring job.....

hears a place that a isuzupup member got a 3.1L with auto trans from his was $3,000
I got my 4JG2 Diesel from JDM Montreal Canada. I found the motor on eBay. They have one currently up for auction. This motor has the electronic IP. If you want a motor with the mechanical IP, request one by calling them toll free: 1-877-413-7272 or E-mail them: [email protected]. Shipping is free to your door step. There is a $55.00 unload fee that must be included to the total if you are having it delivered to a residence.

-Gary
the DI injection of the 2.8L is to valuable to me for cold starting, so i have no interest in a 3.1L with IDI injection.
IE id pay a higher price for what i need, since they are harder to come buy.....
 

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thinking out side the box....

could we cut the middle man out, and reduce are cost that way?
or how much does the middle man mark it up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
trooper T/diesel said:
when getting a engine and trans thats 100% non computer ized.
i just dont see the need for the half cut, unless its much cheaper than the last $5,500 quote i got :(
0.01C

if you wanted a auto trans or a comuterized 3.1L or newer engine then yea, but other wize no.
they use normal 12V glows so i don't see an issue with that wiring.
if it was the 5V QOS that the 2.2L has oh boy....that would be quite the home made wiring job.....

hears a place that a isuzupup member got a 3.1L with auto trans from his was $3,000
I got my 4JG2 Diesel from JDM Montreal Canada. I found the motor on eBay. They have one currently up for auction. This motor has the electronic IP. If you want a motor with the mechanical IP, request one by calling them toll free: 1-877-413-7272 or E-mail them: [email protected]. Shipping is free to your door step. There is a $55.00 unload fee that must be included to the total if you are having it delivered to a residence.

-Gary
the DI injection of the 2.8L is to valuable to me for cold starting, so i have no interest in a 3.1L with IDI injection.
IE id pay a higher price for what i need, since they are harder to come buy.....
my brother has a body shop with a fork lift so no lift gate fees and he has SOME room or i can store in my garage up to THREE 1/2 cuts. the 1/2 cut will protect the intercooler and other parts, as well as give you the radiator,motor mounts/cushions and all the plumbing needed. its ALL there. ive seen 1/2 cuts here in NJ for under 3k...and i missed out, im going to see if i can get a deal on 3 of them or more. Might do a 2.8L and 3.1L mix to give options. everything ive seen and heard is the 3.1L is just alittle more refined and more torque. I contacted the Canadian exporter on eBay and they emailed me back saying i have to call to talk to them next week but im in Vegas at SEMA. You also get the instrument cluster with actual miles/kilometers on the odo (hoping its legit too) and not someone saying "oh its got 80k kilometers on it"....again, this is just a feeler, ill get some leg work done and see if its going to be a viable deal. if it does come to light, i would need a refundable deposit, refundable ONLY when someone else bought the clip IF you bailed. i dont mind sitting on parts i bought at a junkyard that someone "MUST HAVE" and then falls off the planet....but this is big bucks for a cut up Trooper. I talked to Jerry Lemond at URE, if we can go through him, we will as he's dealt with them before. Ill try my guys up here as well, see if a better price can be had. Port Newark is near by too, so shipping containers are unloaded and cheaper to haul shorter distance too...
 

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trooper T/diesel said:
the DI injection of the 2.8L is to valuable to me for cold starting, so i have no interest in a 3.1L with IDI injection.
IE id pay a higher price for what i need, since they are harder to come buy.....
Ditto;
already have 3 IDI's (they are "not as loud", in all fairness) I'd really like a DI rig for the winter and would prefer a 2.8 especially considering how common it is..

BUT - I'm still interested in a 3.1 Especially if it means fewer miles, better condition etc. :D
 

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squatch said:
My problem here is that with a diesel conversion I would have to keep my Truck historic registered. Max 7,500 miles a year and not legal as a DD. Md won't let you do a diesel conversion on a smogged car and DD it.
Then it sounds like you just need more than one, so you can drive them every other day! :lol:

Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
JoeIsuzu said:
squatch said:
My problem here is that with a diesel conversion I would have to keep my Truck historic registered. Max 7,500 miles a year and not legal as a DD. Md won't let you do a diesel conversion on a smogged car and DD it.
Then it sounds like you just need more than one, so you can drive them every other day! :lol:

Jack
HAHAHHAAHAHA!!! perfect solution Jack!!
 
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