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2000 Isuzu Rodeo 5spd 2wd
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone! New member here. I recently purchased a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo 2wd 2.2l 5spd with a shocking 54k original miles! The interior is flawless, the exterior has a few dents and dings but is overall rust-free. Woop woop!
The original owner got it from a shop who took out a mechanic's lien on it after replacing the head/timing belt. He said it never ran after they did the job.
He found that they had hooked up the cam and crank sensor backwards because of DTC's (P0336) pointing to cam and crank sensor, so he swapped those and ended up replacing the sensors and harnesses. After this, it still didn't run and still had a P0336, so he said he checked all the wiring up to the ECM and it was good. At this point, he sold it with the notion that it needed an ECM and he needed cash ASAP.
Flash forward to Monday, April 5th when he delivers it. I replace the ECM with an identical replica. Same crank no start condition. For the sake of legibility, I'll make a list from here of everything I've checked.

Replaced: Crank sensor, Cam sensor, Harness for both, ECM, spark plugs, head, timing belt

Checked: Fuel pressure (41 psi), fuel pressure regulator, all 4 cylinders have 185-190 psi compression, all 4 have strong spark, all sensors are plugged in, the CKP is receiving reference voltage (1.5v) from the ECM on both signal wires, the CKP ground wire has continuity, the timing is set correctly, the ohm reading is within spec for the CKP, the CKP outputs the correct AC voltage when the engine is cranking.

Problems: Engine will crank, sputter, sometimes run for 2-3 seconds then immediately die (smell of unburned fuel after cranking for a while), still getting a P0336 (Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance) or sometimes no DTC's after I clear it, there is a YLW/BLK wire with silver dots that appears to be broken between the valve cover and EGR valve.

I am completely stumped. I posted in a Facebook group and one gentleman mentioned having similar symptoms with a 3.2l and it was because his cams were 180* off, but I'm fairly confident the timing is correct! The way it tries to run really does feel like a timing issue though. I will attached pictures of the cam and crank gears with the engine at TDC of the compression stroke on cyl. 1.

Any advice or pointers in the right direction would be soooo appreciated. I know the most knowledgeable Isuzu Guru's have to be here. I want to get this beautiful machine on the road and enjoy it! Thank you guys!
 

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2000 Isuzu Rodeo 5spd 2wd
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I might also add that all four spark plugs are now fouled and have a fuel smell from cranking/not starting. I also do not know how old the gas is in this thing as it has been sitting for a while. I'm also having a hard time getting it to throw any DTC's now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Geez guys. One more thing. Ha. I believe the YEL/BLK wire to be related to the ECT based on a wiring diagram from the service manual. This wouldn't keep the engine from running would it?
 

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I bought a 2000 Amigo with the 2.2 in it that had a bad head gasket. The head required all new exhaust valves as the mech doing the head work couldn't grind them as they were slightly bent. The engine is an interference engine. I do remember the exhaust cam gear ( I think) as having 2 timing marks. Timing it by one's self is next to impossible as one of the cams will not stay on the marks. It took 2 of us and I had to hold the cam gear that wanted to move in the marks lined up position, and as I remember the water pump had to be in a certain position as well. But your issue sounds hard to give any sort of answer too. you have all 3 things needed for an engine to run. Fuel, spark and compression. So the timing is suspect as if the spark is delivered at the proper time and the valve timing is correct the engine will run. Good luck. After I got mine running it ran well, but I eventually sold it, and now sometimes I regret it as it was really nice. Will include link to mine which you may find informative.

 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
UPDATE: I pulled all four spark plugs out today. Cylinders 1+2 were pretty fouled, Cylinder 3 was very fouled and the electrodes were smashed together. Cylinder 4 was extremely fouled, to the point that gas was dripping off of it. I put 4 new spark plugs in and tried to start it. It sounded much closer to starting and would even run for like 2 seconds then die. The new plugs instantly got fouled so I know that either something isn't happening at the right time or I'm getting way too much fuel. Fortunately, cyl. 3 plug didn't get smashed again.

At this point, I thought maybe the gas was bad as it had been sitting for a while and had a dark coloration, so I drained the fuel tank, filled it up with 93+octane booster, and replaced the fuel filter. Put it all back together, tried to start it. It sounded even better than when I changed the plugs but still WOULD NOT RUN!! What a challenge!

I am now getting the P0336 code again leading me to believe there HAS to be something going on within the CKP system. Maybe that's why the plugs are getting fouled because ignition isn't happening on time, but I've checked EVERYTHING to do with the CKP from the reluctor ring to the ECM.
Any ideas out there? I'm desperate!
 

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Wow, I would call around to old school shops and see if a second set of eyes could help. There is bound to be a good ol mechanic that could help, the issue with the internet is its near impossible to help without hands on, keep at it. What area are you in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wow, I would call around to old school shops and see if a second set of eyes could help. There is bound to be a good ol mechanic that could help, the issue with the internet is its near impossible to help without hands on, keep at it. What area are you in?
I've definitely thought about that. Maybe paying a diagnostic fee is worth more than the trouble of fighting this thing!
I'm right on the tristate between KY, IN and IL.
I appreciate the encouragement!
 

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While I don't have any hands on with that particular engine, I've had a lot of diagnostic experience. From your descriptions, it's either getting too much fuel, or the timing is somehow off (how do you manage that on a distributorless?)
I went back through your thread. Are you SURE those cam timing marks are correct? You have a white arrow pointing UP on the intake cam, and the white arrow on the exhaust cam is pointing towards another mark on the intake cam. (Why in the heck did they feel they needed so many marks?) I did a little searching and the pictures I saw had the cam sprocket counter weights in the same positions (as far as 2 oclock or whatever). You might want to do a careful search to make sure those cams are timed right. If you decide to change anything, I suggest you pull all the plus and CAREFULLY turn it two full revolutions by hand while feeling for any resistance. (I had a DOHC Subaru with 4 cams, and I don't remember how many idler pulleys and they are very unforgiving if a cam is timed wrong)
Harry (Itsmehb) and Bob (Gwana66) seem to be the two here with the most SUCCESSFUL 2.2 experience. Buster28 may also have some knowledge of them.
While it isn't the best engine Isuzu offered, it can work for you if taken care of and not pushed too hard. Good luck, and I'll look for your success. Dennis
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
While I don't have any hands on with that particular engine, I've had a lot of diagnostic experience. From your descriptions, it's either getting too much fuel, or the timing is somehow off (how do you manage that on a distributorless?)
I went back through your thread. Are you SURE those cam timing marks are correct? You have a white arrow pointing UP on the intake cam, and the white arrow on the exhaust cam is pointing towards another mark on the intake cam. (Why in the heck did they feel they needed so many marks?) I did a little searching and the pictures I saw had the cam sprocket counter weights in the same positions (as far as 2 oclock or whatever). You might want to do a careful search to make sure those cams are timed right. If you decide to change anything, I suggest you pull all the plus and CAREFULLY turn it two full revolutions by hand while feeling for any resistance. (I had a DOHC Subaru with 4 cams, and I don't remember how many idler pulleys and they are very unforgiving if a cam is timed wrong)
Harry (Itsmehb) and Bob (Gwana66) seem to be the two here with the most SUCCESSFUL 2.2 experience. Buster28 may also have some knowledge of them.
While it isn't the best engine Isuzu offered, it can work for you if taken care of and not pushed too hard. Good luck, and I'll look for your success. Dennis
Thank you, Dennis. I really appreciate the advice!
I'm almost certain the cams are timed right. I believe the white mark on the intake cam was a mistake made by the technicians that installed the new head and timing belt. The mark on the inner ring of the gear labeled "intake" is pointing to 12 o'clock on the intake gear and the mark labeled "exhaust" is at 12 on the exhaust cam. I'm also inclined to believe the timing is correct because all 4 cylinders still have good compression (no bent valves hopefully) and I have cranked this engine over quite a bit trying to diagnose.
Although everything physically looks correct, I also have a hard time believing it's in time as the symptoms I'm experiencing all but point to a timing issue besides the P0336 crank sensor code. Today, I'm going to double check all the wiring between the crank sensor and the PCM. Perhaps there is a small break I didn't notice in one of the wires that causes it to disrupt the signal just enough to throw off the timing of the ignition or fuel injection, explaining the fouled plugs.
Again, thank you guys. I appreciate all of your input and advice very much!!
 

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Have a real good look at it again. Your picture shows the right cam (one on the right hand side of the picture) as having a stamped arrow and it's painted white. It's lined up with the mark on the top of the cover back plate. In looking closely at your picture (cant blow it up), the cam sprockets seem to be identical (all the lettering and marks I can see seem to be the same). The LEFT side cam definitely has the stamped arrow, and it's painted white, but it's pointed at the mark on the right sprocket. If I was there with a C note in my hand, I'd put it up that rolling that cam 90 degrees counter clockwise and after checking that there is no interference, My Ben says it will fire right up. Dennis
 
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And I just found this. Apparently, both cams use the same sprocket (there are some pictures out there where there are different types of sprockets on the intake and on the exhaust - OTHERS use the same cam for both. Now here's another possibility: depending on intake or exhaust, there are DIFFERENT places to place the cam index pin. Check this out. I STILL think the one cam is off though. D.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
And I just found this. Apparently, both cams use the same sprocket (there are some pictures out there where there are different types of sprockets on the intake and on the exhaust - OTHERS use the same cam for both. Now here's another possibility: depending on intake or exhaust, there are DIFFERENT places to place the cam index pin. Check this out. I STILL think the one cam is off though. D.
Hey Dennis. I went out and tried to move that intake cam 90 degrees counterclockwise so that the stamped, painted arrow would be at 12 o clock with the engine at TDC, but i only made it about 45 degrees and it would not turn anymore. I put a fair amount of pressure on it to try to turn it more but not a significant amount because I do not want to bend any valves. Is this info helpful? Thank you!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Check this out. Answers our question certainly. The timing was correct to begin with (unfortunately). I really thought you were on to something. Darn!! I really appreciate it though. Any ideas on what could be causing the P0336 after changing the crank sensor, checking the reluctor ring, and making sure all the wiring to the PCM checks out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Check this out. Answers our question certainly. The timing was correct to begin with (unfortunately). I really thought you were on to something. Darn!! I really appreciate it though. Any ideas on what could be causing the P0336 after changing the crank sensor, checking the reluctor ring, and making sure all the wiring to the PCM checks out?
 

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Okay. Now THAT makes sense. Note that the post was by Bob (gwana66). He's down here in Florida and he does know his stuff. Of course this also means that at least one of the pictures I found is incorrect as it shows both arrows up. I guess this is one more reason folks don't like the 2.2 (Both Bob and Harry liked theirs). Dennis
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
UPDATE:
I'm completely stumped now haha. I checked all the wiring up to the PCM again and it was all intact. The only discrepancy I found was a small hole in the insulation on one signal wire near the sensor, but the connection wasn't interrupted. I've exhausted all of my diagnostic knowledge and techniques as well as all of the ideas that my fellow Isuzu owners have so graciously offered.
I've decided that it's my best bet to just take it to a mechanic and have them diagnose it because I do not want to start throwing parts.
Thank you all for your help though! I look forward to finding out the problem. I'll share it here so that maybe someday in the future, I can be the random dude that posted on a forum ten years ago with super valuable information haha.
 
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