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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am working on getting my 89 Pup running. It had a bad head when I bought it. I had another engine with a head with less than 10K on it but it was missing and a compression check indicated it was worn out. Less that 115 on 3 cylinders and 35 on #2. So I pulled the low miles head and stuck a straight edge on it and found I had .006 clearance between #2 and #3. Everything else I could not even get .002 to slip under. So my question is: Is there an amount that is considered within tolerance or is my head warped enough that I will blow head gaskets? The old head that has a burned valve, is flat, I cannot get a feeler gauge to slide under the straight edge at all.
I have a low milage AMC I have been holding back from using as the long range plan is a complete rebuild of the spare engine a year or so down the road. It is flat also I could not get the feeler gauge to slide there either. Just looking for opinions. I am leaning toward the AMC as I want to get another year or so before starting the new rebuild. I usually put about 8 to 10K a year on my Isuzu's.
Thanks!!
And as soon as I can I will post some pictures, this thing is clean!
 

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If you have the money, take the head with the burned valve and have the valve replaced. If it doesn't need any major machine work (valves are all within spec, seals are good etc) then you should be able to get by with just replacing the culprit valve.

Does the warped head show signs that the head cracked? The usual indication on the 4Z engines is one of the exhaust ports should be a bit cleaner than the others. As evidenced by the old 2.6 I got for my Impulse project.


I don't have a good shot of cyl. 1 or 4's ports to give you a comparison, but you can see how clean 3 is, and partly clean 2 is. This head has a crack right where they are known to fail at, and the gasket was starting to fail between those cylinders, which is also typical. I will be ordering a new Clearwater head for that motor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the good info, I will look at that again in the AM, but I believe that all the exhaust ports are actually kind of sooty. I bought this head about 05 to put on the Trooper I just recycled. I bought from someplace in Texas that claimed to of rebuilt and fixed all the manufacture problems. I was surprised it seemed warped due to the low miles since I put it together and it had not been heated up, but I am glad I checked. I almost didn't!
 

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hessmess said:
Thanks for the good info, I will look at that again in the AM, but I believe that all the exhaust ports are actually kind of sooty. I bought this head about 05 to put on the Trooper I just recycled. I bought from someplace in Texas that claimed to of rebuilt and fixed all the manufacture problems. I was surprised it seemed warped due to the low miles since I put it together and it had not been heated up, but I am glad I checked. I almost didn't!
DICK, THAT CYL HEAD WITH T HE .006 WARP. COULD BE SAVED , MAX WARPAGE BY THE FACTORY IS .004 BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE IT LINE BORED SO THE CAM DOESNT SEIZE UP. THE CENTER O F THE HEAD ON TOP WILL BE BASICALLY PUSHED UP WARD IN THE CENTER , A GOOD MACHINE SHOP CAN FIX IT FAIRLY EASY AND 6 THO, WOULD NOT BE TOO MUCH TO REMOVE ANY WAY , YOU CAN CHECK IT YOUR SELF ,JUST TAKE A GOOD CAM AND LAY IT IN THE JOURNALS AND SEE HOW MUCH IT ROCKS FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER , YOU COULD EASILY CUT .10 FROM THE BOTTOM AND HAVE IT LINE BORED AND HAVE A PERFECTLY GOOD HEAD , ALL SO WILL KNOW BY TU , BUT MY FRIEND AT CHEVY JUST CALLED ME AND SAID HE THINKS HE HAS A OIL FILTER ADAPTER BOLT THAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR LOCATED , SAID IT SHOULD BE THERE MON OR TU SOME HOW OR THE OTHER HE FOUND IT AT A GM PT,S WAREHOUSE IN CANADA ALONG WITH THE ORING AND GASKET ,JERRY
 

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Shouldn't cost that much to have it completely gone over by a good machine shop including a 3 angle valve job and milling what needs to be milled. I had it done on my head and was glad I did. valves that look good aren't always. my truck was running good but the valve seats were a disaster That you couldn't see until the machine shop tore it down. The seats weren't centered on the valves! Little machine work and all has been fine for over 30K miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all the good information. I went ahead and put the AMC head with the delta 260 cam,that I had been holding back on it yesterday. Hope to have it fired up today. I plan on keeping the warped head and the one I took off the engine. It is flat and the only major problem was the burned valve. So I have 2 good cores for the future. I also have a rebuildable 2.6 block. If the current one in the pup holds up for a few years I will start sourcing parts for the rebuild like I did on the 2.8. I am excited to get this Pup back on the road! The future plans include a header (have), a 2 1/4 exhaust, shackle lift,(ordered) and a LSD, (working on a deal now).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I do have some pictures but haven't put them together yet, maybe I can get to it on Sunday. And Selador I used that DVD that you were involved with and if I looked right they had some weird valve clearance and it was the same for both intake and exhaust. I did not use that information as I knew it was not right.
 

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hessmess said:
I do have some pictures but haven't put them together yet, maybe I can get to it on Sunday. And Selador I used that DVD that you were involved with and if I looked right they had some weird valve clearance and it was the same for both intake and exhaust. I did not use that information as I knew it was not right.
Man, I was JUST going to make a post about that !!!

I got it all back together. And couldn't resist starting it up for the first time, and letting it warm up.

Well, I poured three gallons of water in there.

It was still thirsty. I poured in two more, a bit at a a time. Then about another quart, before it finally looked like it wasn't asking for more. (And it was good and hot by that time. I was watching water circulate in the rad, so I know the tstat was open by then.)

I turned it off shortly after that.

I did not see any steam. Saw a LOT of oil smoke for a while, but eventually that cleared up. (I had pbblaster and refular 5w30 oil in the cylinders. LOL)

So where was it going ?

The manual says the total capacity is 2.6 gallons. I put in twice that.

So, I decided to scroll down and look for the capacity for the oil, since I'll be changing that tomorrow...

The manual says the total capacity of the oil system with the filter is, 4.0 liters, or 1.06 us quarts. Total without the filter is 3.6 liters or 0.95 us quart.

WTF ????

There is a LOT of valve noise, (I DID use the valve clearance info in the "manual"), and the rpms are at 200 and staying there, so I have plenty more work to do.

Now if I can just find the TRUE capacities, and valve clearance........
 

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Selador said:
hessmess said:
I do have some pictures but haven't put them together yet, maybe I can get to it on Sunday. And Selador I used that DVD that you were involved with and if I looked right they had some weird valve clearance and it was the same for both intake and exhaust. I did not use that information as I knew it was not right.
Man, I was JUST going to make a post about that !!!

I got it all back together. And couldn't resist starting it up for the first time, and letting it warm up.

Well, I poured three gallons of water in there.

It was still thirsty. I poured in two more, a bit at a a time. Then about another quart, before it finally looked like it wasn't asking for more. (And it was good and hot by that time. I was watching water circulate in the rad, so I know the tstat was open by then.)

I turned it off shortly after that.

I did not see any steam. Saw a LOT of oil smoke for a while, but eventually that cleared up. (I had pbblaster and refular 5w30 oil in the cylinders. LOL)

So where was it going ?

The manual says the total capacity is 2.6 gallons. I put in twice that.

So, I decided to scroll down and look for the capacity for the oil, since I'll be changing that tomorrow...

The manual says the total capacity of the oil system with the filter is, 4.0 liters, or 1.06 us quarts. Total without the filter is 3.6 liters or 0.95 us quart.

WTF ????

There is a LOT of valve noise, (I DID use the valve clearance info in the "manual"), and the rpms are at 200 and staying there, so I have plenty more work to do.

Now if I can just find the TRUE capacities, and valve clearance........
JEFF , YOUR ENG TAKE 4.1 QTS FOR A FRESH FILL MAY EVEN TAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT ON A COMPLETE TEAR DOWN, AND REBUILD , BY THE TIME ALL THE OIL PASSAGES ARE FILLED , BUT 4.1 QT,S IS THE INITIAL FILL INCLUDING THE FILTER

THE COOLANT FILL IF RAD AND HTR AND ENG ARE BONE DRY IS 9.5 QT,S , BE SURE THE HTR CONTROL VLV IS SET TO FULL HOT WHEN FILLING THE SYSTEM

VLV CLEARANCE IS .006 THOUSANDS O0N THE INT AND THE EX IS .010 THOUSANDS , THESE SPEC WILL WORK FINE FOR ANY STOCK REBUILD 2.6 UNLESS YOU HAVE A DIFF CAM PROFILE ,JERRY
 

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JLEMOND said:
JEFF , YOUR ENG TAKE 4.1 QTS FOR A FRESH FILL MAY EVEN TAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT ON A COMPLETE TEAR DOWN, AND REBUILD , BY THE TIME ALL THE OIL PASSAGES ARE FILLED , BUT 4.1 QT,S IS THE INITIAL FILL INCLUDING THE FILTER

THE COOLANT FILL IF RAD AND HTR AND ENG ARE BONE DRY IS 9.5 QT,S , BE SURE THE HTR CONTROL VLV IS SET TO FULL HOT WHEN FILLING THE SYSTEM

VLV CLEARANCE IS .006 THOUSANDS O0N THE INT AND THE EX IS .010 THOUSANDS , THESE SPEC WILL WORK FINE FOR ANY STOCK REBUILD 2.6 UNLESS YOU HAVE A DIFF CAM PROFILE ,JERRY
Thanks tons, Jerry !!!

:D :D :D

I wrote up a whole new topic about this, while you were replying. LOL
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54983

Still leaves me wondering where all that extra water went ???

And now I'll also have to go to town and get a wire type feeler guage. LOL

Thanks again.
 

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Selador said:
JLEMOND said:
JEFF , YOUR ENG TAKE 4.1 QTS FOR A FRESH FILL MAY EVEN TAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT ON A COMPLETE TEAR DOWN, AND REBUILD , BY THE TIME ALL THE OIL PASSAGES ARE FILLED , BUT 4.1 QT,S IS THE INITIAL FILL INCLUDING THE FILTER

THE COOLANT FILL IF RAD AND HTR AND ENG ARE BONE DRY IS 9.5 QT,S , BE SURE THE HTR CONTROL VLV IS SET TO FULL HOT WHEN FILLING THE SYSTEM

VLV CLEARANCE IS .006 THOUSANDS O0N THE INT AND THE EX IS .010 THOUSANDS , THESE SPEC WILL WORK FINE FOR ANY STOCK REBUILD 2.6 UNLESS YOU HAVE A DIFF CAM PROFILE ,JERRY
Thanks tons, Jerry !!!

:D :D :D

I wrote up a whole new topic about this, while you were replying. LOL
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54983

Still leaves me wondering where all that extra water went ???

And now I'll also have to go to town and get a wire type feeler guage. LOL

Thanks again.
JEFF , JUST USE A GOOD FLAT TYPE FEELER GAUGE , A ROUND WIRE TYPE DOESNT GIVE YOU A VERY GOOD READING ON THE VLV TIP LIKE A FLAT ONE WILL
 

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JLEMOND said:
JEFF , JUST USE A GOOD FLAT TYPE FEELER GAUGE , A ROUND WIRE TYPE DOESNT GIVE YOU A VERY GOOD READING ON THE VLV TIP LIKE A FLAT ONE WILL
Ok. I've always kind of felt that way, too.

But since I am obviously getting a too loose setting, by using a flat guage for the 0.20mm... I think I'll try to find some flat guages that are not as wide as the ones I have.

I am thinking that the guage being too wide, makes it read more off the spring cap, than off the tip of the valve stem.

Since a LOT of this is simply in the method that we tend to use, what I'll do is find a full set that are not as wide, then I'll set it to your numbers. If I still get it too loose, I'll go one number down. Etc. Until I get it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I just finished readjusting my valves on my Pup tonight, I had the 1 and 4 exhaust way loose. Man it runs great! Make sure you have a cold engine to set the valves. I did like Jerry said, just used my regular feeler gauges and everything went smooth. I have to work a long day tomorrow but my son is going to the DMV for me and get the plates so I can drive on the streets----legally. He wasn't happy about the DMV but I just mentioned the lack of rent and so forth and he then agreed. HA! And the coolent I used about what Jerry said. I don't have a clue about where it all went for you.
 

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hessmess said:
I just finished readjusting my valves on my Pup tonight, I had the 1 and 4 exhaust way loose. Man it runs great! Make sure you have a cold engine to set the valves. I did like Jerry said, just used my regular feeler gauges and everything went smooth. I have to work a long day tomorrow but my son is going to the DMV for me and get the plates so I can drive on the streets----legally. He wasn't happy about the DMV but I just mentioned the lack of rent and so forth and he then agreed. HA! And the coolent I used about what Jerry said. I don't have a clue about where it all went for you.
I'll trade you two troopers for that pup !!

:wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well as much as I appreciate the offer, I am just going to have to past. And it has plates now. So I am gonna drive it to work tomorrow.
 

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hessmess said:
Well as much as I appreciate the offer, I am just going to have to past. And it has plates now. So I am gonna drive it to work tomorrow.
DANG !!!!

Grumble :angry1: grumble :angry2: grumble :angry3:
 

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Another old Zoo back on the road!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hat's off to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And a Space Cab at that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well the "on the road" was interesting. Hit the freeway, got to 60, everything great. Hit 65 and I thought I was going to vibrate off the road. So I slowly go to work and use the frontage road on the way home. Man something has to be bent! Put it up on jacks and start looking. Cannot find anything. Start it up on jacks and spin the wheels through 4th and up to 5th gear and the rear end just starts to bouncing. But nothing is out of round. So I pull the tires off and go throught he gears again.. smooth! Grab both tires and go to pick them up and the drivers side is so heavy it almost topples me. It is kind of funny. Seems when the truck was sitting in a field in Baker Oregon one of the tires must of gone flat and when they pumped it up it sucked up some water. I am guessing about 3 gallons by the weight. So don't use water to balance the tires! The water line on the tires shows it was sitting in about 6 to 8 inches of water at one time. Put the tires from the Trooper on and went for a spin. Right up to 80 and smooth. Think I will be looking for some tires, cause the Trooper is going to be back on the road in the next week or so. And the old tires from the pup are a mix of P rated and LT rated and are kind of weatherchecked. But it did run smooth and had excellent power. In a couple of hours my son and I are going to the camping spot in the hills to visit my brothers and do a little .22 plinking and test the truck in the mountains a bit. Have to go buy a camera at Wally world. Mine conked out Thursday while I was taking pictures of our stuck excavator.
 
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